BMW is Nickel and Diming its customers...do you agree?

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by 850tgul

How much is the rwd layout and 50/50 weight distribution option on the Corolla?

well if you drive in REVERSE and put a shit load of ROCKS in the trunk-----50/50 and RWD, son!

THREE FITTY IN BLUETOOTH and no Corolla badge!? What a horrible deal!

You buy a Corolla for the badge. The hot badge of practicality and regret....carry on then!

[ASAP]

There is some sort of poor assumption here that these cars are in the same class, engineered for the same purpose and are somehow equals in only one way and that would be options...

How much does a RWD corolla w 50/50 weight distribution, a six cylinder straight six motor, an a zf 6 tranny and BMW driving dynamics cost? You want to see nickel and diming.... please visit www.Porsche.com

[Nkc]

I would never have imagined a day where I would read bmw 3 series and Corolla in the same sentience.

[Burstofspeed]

Originally Posted by Matski

BMW's are good value for money and come with lots of great free stuff



Said no one in the world, ever.

Omg I laughed so hard at this

Nobody buys these cars cuz their economical. Although I was a little surprised that an upgraded Honda leather seat could feel more comfortable than a stock vinyl bmw or Mercedes ones.

[catchm3ifyoucann]

Originally Posted by ASAP

There is some sort of poor assumption here that these cars are in the same class, engineered for the same purpose and are somehow equals in only one way and that would be options...

How much does a RWD corolla w 50/50 weight distribution, a six cylinder straight six motor, an a zf 6 tranny and BMW driving dynamics cost? You want to see nickel and diming.... please visit www.Porsche.com

All cars are engineered for the same purpose to transport you from A to B. There is no difference between a BMW & Honda, Toyota, etc. They have an engine, tires, suspension, transmission, exhaust, you get the point here.

I personally find it ridiculous having to pay for navigation, back up camera, and other options that auto manufacturers have begun to make standard.

In terms of how they were engineered and the materials used is a different story. I think its a bit foolish to drop over $50k to $60k on an a base model of a high end brand. I just checked to add navigation on a 2016 BMW 320i its $1,950. Which is completely ridiculous, when I can use Google Maps on my phone thats free and updated regularly.

Porsche is the king of understanding how to make money off options and accessories. Hence why it can make over $23k profit per vehicle.

[rcl]

If you think BMW 3 series has good build quality you really need to drive some of the new japanese luxury cars. They're way ahead in terms of interior design, materials and tech. And also usually have more power and get better gas mileage than the bmw equivalent in the class.

[M2PDX]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

well if you drive in REVERSE and put a shit load of ROCKS in the trunk-----50/50 and RWD, son!

THREE FITTY IN BLUETOOTH and no Corolla badge!? What a horrible deal!

You buy a Corolla for the badge. The hot badge of practicality and regret....carry on then!

lol

you win funniest post of the week!

+1

[John_01]

I agree with the OP, but BMW has been like that since the 80s. Most of the options are way overpriced and everyone knows it. You probably shouldn't visit a Porsche dealer if this type of thing upsets you.

It doesn't worry me so much because I generally only want a few essential options. I will specify a factory ordered car to get exactly what I want.

Now I'm just waiting for the day that BMW ask me to pay $950 to get the optional dip stick installed in the block.

[catchm3ifyoucann]

Originally Posted by John_01

I agree with the OP, but BMW has been like that since the 80s. Most of the options are way overpriced and everyone knows it. You probably shouldn't visit a Porsche dealer if this type of thing upsets you.

It doesn't worry me so much because I generally only want a few essential options. I will specify a factory ordered car to get exactly what I want.

Now I'm just waiting for the day that BMW ask me to pay $950 to get the optional dip stick installed in the block.

I doubt this type of pricing on options will truly effect the M brand mainly because its the performance that has already caused us to buy the vehicle. But for a car buyer whom doesn't care for performance, is looking for something high end, decent gas mileage, relatively inexpensive to maintain, and for something to come well equipped they might be looking else where as BMW falls flat there. Lexus and Acura have been smart to realize this.

[P1]

There aren't many that buy a car only because of some basic options that are thrown in. Would you cross-shop a Corolla to a 3-series and choose the Corolla just because it had LED headlights and a backup camera? I doubt it.

I always laugh when people start comparing how fast an M3 is compared to an S4 or something. Who cares if one beat the other on the 'Ring. Is that the only reason why you buy a car, because it has a fast 0-60?

Personally, the main reason I buy a car is because I like the exterior of it.

[401FlaGATOR]

Originally Posted by rcl

If you think BMW 3 series has good build quality you really need to drive some of the new japanese luxury cars. They're way ahead in terms of interior design, materials and tech. And also usually have more power and get better gas mileage than the bmw equivalent in the class.

If you think Lexus and Infiniti counterparts get better gas mileage than the 3 series could you provide some documentation of that, a quick glance at Lexus and Infiniti websites doesn't seem to back up your assertion.

Also don't agree with them being ahead in all those areas. Dating back to WWII, history says otherwise and the status quo has never changed:


http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/07/03...referrer=&_r=0
I think your missing the point completely, BMW could throw in those things into the base package, it would just raise the cost of the base package and the potential client would lose choice in the matter and BMW would sell less. I think the point of the NY Times article is that the Germans are giving their potential clients more choice than ever. Why should they need to modify a winning strategy of many different models and a la carte options and packages?

Competition is the only way to bend BMW to your wishes and evidently the competition hasn't been able to do so yet, the day you see BMW giving away the farm is the day the competition has finally built an equivalent or better vehicle. There's a reason you are getting that "free stuff".

[wdb]

Buying a BMW + griping about BMW's sales policies 4 years later = the longest gestation period for buyer's remorse I've ever seen.

Although VW diesel owners may top it.

[Viffermike]

Here's the thing, everyone: context is king.

First off: Most German luxury cars are not luxury cars in Germany. Mercs are taxis over there, fer cryin' out loud. Most BMWs are actually considered a rung above Merc in its home country -- but even so, the majority sold are manuals with cloth/synthetic upholstery and basic power packages -- and the driving-assist and infotainment features are more limited as well.

Secondly: The reason above is part of the reason BMW and other German manufacturers 'nickel-and-dime' options on U.S.-spec cars; the options are somewhat unusual. In BMW's case, this practice dates back to the 1970s when BMWs were not marketed as luxury vehicles per se in the U.S. -- they were marketed as engineered driver's cars (as opposed to Merc back in those days, which were marketed as luxury cars despite its home-country pedigree). All BMW has done in the interim is continue tradition because the practice simply hasn't hurt sales -- in fact, it has likely helped sales (see point #3 below). Furthermore, "Packages" (Premium Package, Cold Weather Package, etc.) are not determined by BMW AG; they are determined by BMW NA.

Thirdly: Be thankful that BMW allows for the nickel-and-diming, and us to order cars a la carte, built to our specifications. VW doesn't allow that. Audi doesn't allow that. Honda/Acura doesn't allow that. Neither does Nissan or Infiniti. Lexus? Kind of ... sort of? Hell: MINI -- a BMW-owned company -- doesn't allow for that.

Does BMW nickel-and-dime? Yep. And that it does actually sold me on one.

[Outrun]

Definitely agree. I have a '16 M235i. It blows my mind that for a 50k car, a rearview camera wasn't a standard feature, and that a car alarm was not a standard feature until this model year! I can definitely understand paying more for luxury options and uber tech features....but really BMW??

[atomic]

Looking at Toyota and BMW financials it looks like they both have an operating margin of 10 percent. A BMW should out accelerate, have better brakes, better handling, better warranty and free maintenance for four years. Also your experience when going in for warranty work should be much better at BMW dealership. I guess it is what you are looking for. I had a 4 runner once and I had to get the limited edition to,get any of the features I wanted. It was much more expensive than the base model. So,what you are saying isn't exactly true.

I would think comparing BMW to Audi and Mercedes would be a better choice. Compare Toyotas to Nissans, Hondas, Kias and Fords.

[atomic]

Originally Posted by Outrun

Definitely agree. I have a '16 M235i. It blows my mind that for a 50k car, a rearview camera wasn't a standard feature, and that a car alarm was not a standard feature until this model year! I can definitely understand paying more for luxury options and uber tech features....but really BMW??

You are paying for the engine and suspension You can blow most any car away on the road. If you want more luxury get an Audi.

[Chunner]

Originally Posted by rcl

If you think BMW 3 series has good build quality you really need to drive some of the new japanese luxury cars. They're way ahead in terms of interior design, materials and tech. And also usually have more power and get better gas mileage than the bmw equivalent in the class.

You show complete signs of buyer remorse. Please go trade in your BMW for your Corolla and go troll somewhere else.

[Chunner]

Originally Posted by Outrun

Definitely agree. I have a '16 M235i. It blows my mind that for a 50k car, a rearview camera wasn't a standard feature, and that a car alarm was not a standard feature until this model year! I can definitely understand paying more for luxury options and uber tech features....but really BMW??

Why do you need an alarm for your 2er? Thieves like those Japaneses things they call cars.

[Vector Pilot]

Options being standard would not be a discussion if BMW's retained its best in class handling and performance, but since it has been compromised, it becomes a question of value.

[New2Roundel]

I think the OP doesn't understand the difference between a volume product and a luxury product. A luxury item is not designed to provide value or, more for less. Especially with toyota, its much harder to personalize your car. The reality is that toyota generally only offers cars with certain options in specific markets. The configurator is not representative of what is in your particular market, so if you want something that is outside of the standard for your market---good luck with that. It's part of toyota's volume strategy. A BMW--you can get whatever options are available for your car.

People on this forum may get jerked up that certain options aren't standard, but frankly, I don't want a backup camera in my car. I can see just fine. I like the BMW allows people to pick and choose exactly the BMW experience that works for them. The problem is that options become very expensive because you don't have an economy of scale. The one thing that stood out about my M3 and a major reason I bought it is because it has almost no convenience features: 6MT, cloth seats, no i-drive, but it does have BT, heated seats, and the competition package. It's perfect for me and i would not have bought it if it had leather and iDrive. But in the end, that's exactly part of the luxury experience---you get a lot more flexibility in options.

The other consideration is the experience behind the wheel. I've driven a previous generation corolla and although I thought it was very well built, it was like the engineers tried their hardest to remove any aspect of the driving experience that could be considered fun. As a result, it's about the most uninspiring driving experience out there--from what I've read the driving experience of the current car isn't much better than the previous one. If the OP doesn't notice the differences in how the cars drive, then I'm not sure the BMW was a good choice for him.

Having said that, I briefly considered an e92 328i. I ended up buying a '12 Mustang GT instead and had no regrets in the least. I now have an e92 M3 and also have no regrets. It's clear to me why the mustang was so much less expensive.

[MalibuBimmer]

Perhaps this thread should be re-titled: "BMWs are Expensive!"

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by rcl

I've owned my 2011 328i coupe 6mt for about 20 months now. I bought it just because I was caught up in the hype of owning a German having and having a BMW and etc. But shortly after I felt underwhelmed by it regarding what you actually get for the price you pay.

Switching gears here slightly, my 2016 Corolla LE(not the top of the line model) comes standard with rear-view camera, LED headlights, and bluetooth phone integration. The car was $16,250.

Now my friends 2016 BMW 320i cost him $35k. He had to pay $700 for the Lighting package to get LED headlights and he had to pay $900 for the Driver Assistance Package to get rear-view camera. Finally he had to pay $350 for bluetooth phone integration. Almost an additional $2k in options just to get a NEW BMW optioned as well as a basic corolla. Is it just me or should basic tech like this be included WITHIN the base msrp of a car that is a 'luxury brand' and commands more than double the msrp of my Corolla. I just feel like when you spend more money, you should get more, not get less. I know you could say well you have to pay to play blah blah blah which it true, I don't mind paying for more but it's just kind of shitty to pay more money for a 'luxury car' when it doesn't even come standard with basic options.

Anyway, your thoughts?

Totally agree, but it's ALWAYS been that way not just with BMW but with German auto manufacturers in general. Porsche is the worst offender.

Japanese automakers approach is in a much more simplified manner (Lexus, Acura, Infiniti) with lots more standard equipment.

Since they are big into marketing themselves as a mainstream luxury brand...they're priced as such and I suspect the lack of standard equipment is to give owners a sense of a great degree of customization...at a price.