No Manual in Future M5/M6?

[tab]

I see another report that the manual is dead for M5/M6 models past this generation. No surprise. Makes mine more "rare." (That's the word you use for "unpopular" if you're the owner!)

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...6-manual-dead/

[GladiatorOwner]

More "engaging" is the real description. Anybody can drive an auto....er...dct. Manual drivers feel the speed at all times. Of course that's what I think and I've owned both kinds! Ha

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by GladiatorOwner

More "engaging" is the real description. Anybody can drive an auto....er...dct. Manual drivers feel the speed at all times. Of course that's what I think and I've owned both kinds! Ha

Well, yes and no. Anybody can drive the auto transmission but how many people can turn the DSF OFF, set everything to sport+, put the DCT in S3 mode and then go 0-60 in 3.6-3.7 second???
I'm a MT guy with over 20 years driving MT cars but as much as I love manual transmission, I love the M DCT because of fast shifting and that nice dual clutch purpose to maximize the transferred torque, but still have no doubt on small cars such as M3/M4 MT has superiority over DCT

[GladiatorOwner]

Agreed on everything your saying however your "the man" when it comes to these cars (take that as a compliment!)

Most owners of these cars never tap the rare air of the Ms true ability. Sure, some read about the ability, but how many DO it.....?

[tab]

Originally Posted by GladiatorOwner

Agreed on everything your saying however your "the man" when it comes to these cars (take that as a compliment!)

Most owners of these cars never tap the rare air of the Ms true ability. Sure, some read about the ability, but how many DO it.....?

I confess it's hard to tap my car's ability in my circumstances; BUT I do note that if I were driving 90 in an 80 zone in Wyoming last week and downshifted to 4th and punched it, it would take almost no time to hit the governed 156, still pulling pretty hard up to that peg, resulting in a disapproving turn of the head from my wife....

[EL MEJOR]

Originally Posted by tab

I confess it's hard to tap my car's ability in my circumstances; BUT I do note that if I were driving 90 in an 80 zone in Wyoming last week and downshifted to 4th and punched it, it would take almost no time to hit the governed 156, still pulling pretty hard up to that peg, resulting in a disapproving turn of the head from my wife....

I'm definitely an MT guy but when the 2013 M6 came out there was no option for MT so I settled for DCT and I have to say I do love it. I actually drive it 9/10 on M1 mode which is set to every setting on sport+, DST OFF and S3 engaged. I've tapped it out 2x at 156 once with the top down (1st time) and second time with top up. It is an exhilarating feeling for many reasons. 1) the joy and adrenaline of the speed 2)?the wind so strong on your face it literally pushes tears from your eyes 3) the fear of one of the cars on the right lane going to left late since you have no time to react at that speed and 4) being seeing by you know who. All in all I've told myself I wouldn't do it again, but if the opportunity arises and the conditions are right, I just might press on it again

Nothing beats a MT though. There is just no way to replace that engagement between man and car. It's sad that it's really like a dying breed since its a technology that the new generations are not growing up with especially when new drivers drive their 1st car and it's an automatic rather than that manual car your dad had for 20 years and then passed on to you because automatic has become the norm and in turn cheaper to manufacture since its not the niche that it was 70 years ago. Now MT is just for the enthusiasts and the spirited drivers who understand the mechanical engagement of the vehicle. Sad to see it go on the more powerful offerings from BMW but it's a logical step especially if they are going to be going AWD on the M

[M6-Coupe]

And one more advantage of DCT over the MT in this car is the aggressive gear ratio... with almost 20% shorter in first gear (4.81 vs 4.06), DCT transfers 20% more torque to the rear wheels and it means FUN .. the same thing for other gears but not as much as first gear...
here are the gear ratios:


6 Speed Manual gear ratios
4.06/2.40/1.58/1.19/1.00/0.87 :1

7-speed M Double Clutch Transmission ratios
4.81/2.59/1.70/1.28 1.00/0.84/0.67 :1

[EL MEJOR]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

And one more advantage of DCT over the MT in this car is the aggressive gear ratio... with almost 20% shorter in first gear (4.81 vs 4.06), DCT transfers 20% more torque to the rear wheels and it means FUN .. the same thing for other gears but not as much as first gear...
here are the gear ratios:


6 Speed Manual gear ratios
4.06/2.40/1.58/1.19/1.00/0.87 :1

7-speed M Double Clutch Transmission ratios
4.81/2.59/1.70/1.28 1.00/0.84/0.67 :1

Absolutely agree with you on that. But anyone driving an MT now is not so much for the sport of speed but more for the connection/engagement you have with the car.

[brad850csi]

I don't see it as a big loss, however I must admit I do love manuals and if I could get a right hand drive M6 in manual it would be a no brainer to order one, purely for the unique aspect of it, even though I know it will be slower.

At least you get the best gearbox in the world as the other option. What annoys me is in cars like the 535i and 550i you can't get a 6MT anymore, you have to have the 8 speed auto which isn't anywhere near as good as the DCT, or a manual.

At least this isn't Audi, who put a DSG into their S6 and S7, then the 8 speed auto into the RS6 and RS7. Then add torque steer which is just terrifying in a 560hp car!

[speedracerlo]

I've been driving manual for over 17 years. I drove my 2005 E46 M3 6MT for over seven and half years without jumping ship to another car because I loved it so much. That is until I moved to Los Angeles and hit the rush hour traffic jam and started getting cramps on my left calf from pressing the clutch so often. When I get stuck in bumper to bumper traffic here in SoCal, driving manual is a PITA and hell of an experience. For that reason, I'm OUT.

[EL MEJOR]

Originally Posted by brad850csi

I don't see it as a big loss, however I must admit I do love manuals and if I could get a right hand drive M6 in manual it would be a no brainer to order one, purely for the unique aspect of it, even though I know it will be slower.

At least you get the best gearbox in the world as the other option. What annoys me is in cars like the 535i and 550i you can't get a 6MT anymore, you have to have the 8 speed auto which isn't anywhere near as good as the DCT, or a manual.

At least this isn't Audi, who put a DSG into their S6 and S7, then the 8 speed auto into the RS6 and RS7. Then add torque steer which is just terrifying in a 560hp car!

+1

[TwistyRoad]

Tab, I just acquired a 2015 M6 GC MT Tanzanite Blue with Amaro Brown Interior and took possession last weekend. It was a long search. I've had a 540i MT, 550 MT (still have it), and X5 5.0 (still have it for snowy PA winters). This M6 I drove and it is a different beast. Shipped it from LA to PA. I'm glad I can pick your brain on this car that is one year older than yours. Looking forward to spring.

[IM6]

You guys do realise that even the DCT is not an option in the latest M5 generation and the upcoming M8/850!!

[tab]

Originally Posted by TwistyRoad

Tab, I just acquired a 2015 M6 GC MT Tanzanite Blue with Amaro Brown Interior and took possession last weekend. It was a long search. I've had a 540i MT, 550 MT (still have it), and X5 5.0 (still have it for snowy PA winters). This M6 I drove and it is a different beast. Shipped it from LA to PA. I'm glad I can pick your brain on this car that is one year older than yours. Looking forward to spring.

Awesome! Congrats on the buy! I love your taste!

I have come to rely on the rev matching, so I usually keep the throttle set on just Sport. Rev matching turns off on Sport Plus. But the throttle response is SO much better in Sport Plus that I still drive that way sometimes. I wish you could program Sport Plus throttle and still keep rev matching, but I'm not aware of how to do that.

I drive it year-round, with Nokian snows on right now. This is the time of year when I can't wait until the temps in Chicago are reliably high enough to put the real tires back on. It makes such a huge difference in handling. We're driving to Mammoth Cave in 2 weeks, so Kentucky, and I'm wondering whether it will be warm enough for most of that drive that I put my real tires on for the trip. Just could be dicey back in Chicago in late March. The rubber in the summers is so hard at low temps that it's pretty loose below 50 degrees. It's usually about April 15 that I'm safe around here.

The color is pretty stealthy (which I wanted), but amazing in bright light. Many people don't recognize the car for what it is (I wanted low-key), BUT it still usually gets parked up front at a restaurant. So valet guys know exactly what they're looking at. (No, I'm not crazy about the concept of letting valet guys drive it; but you gotta live your life....)

[tab]

Originally Posted by IM6

You guys do realise that even the DCT is not an option in the latest M5 generation and the upcoming M8/850!!

The performance advantage of AWD will make the new models worth it. But I'll take my slow-poke 560 hp with RWD and a stick for now. I kind of doubt I'll ever get an M8 GC -- but it does look awesome.

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by TwistyRoad

Tab, I just acquired a 2015 M6 GC MT Tanzanite Blue with Amaro Brown Interior and took possession last weekend. It was a long search. I've had a 540i MT, 550 MT (still have it), and X5 5.0 (still have it for snowy PA winters). This M6 I drove and it is a different beast. Shipped it from LA to PA. I'm glad I can pick your brain on this car that is one year older than yours. Looking forward to spring.

Congrats. The car you bought was on the market for a long time. I'm aware of it bc the dealer and I went back and forth it a few times and I passed on it due to pricing. My actual reason on the pricing as I told the dealer was that I wasn't paying a premium for a MT car.

Can I ask how much you ended up buying it for? At last check about a month ago, he had it listed at $62k.

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by tab

Awesome! Congrats on the buy! I love your taste!

I have come to rely on the rev matching, so I usually keep the throttle set on just Sport. Rev matching turns off on Sport Plus. But the throttle response is SO much better in Sport Plus that I still drive that way sometimes. I wish you could program Sport Plus throttle and still keep rev matching, but I'm not aware of how to do that.

I drive it year-round, with Nokian snows on right now. This is the time of year when I can't wait until the temps in Chicago are reliably high enough to put the real tires back on. It makes such a huge difference in handling. We're driving to Mammoth Cave in 2 weeks, so Kentucky, and I'm wondering whether it will be warm enough for most of that drive that I put my real tires on for the trip. Just could be dicey back in Chicago in late March. The rubber in the summers is so hard at low temps that it's pretty loose below 50 degrees. It's usually about April 15 that I'm safe around here.

The color is pretty stealthy (which I wanted), but amazing in bright light. Many people don't recognize the car for what it is (I wanted low-key), BUT it still usually gets parked up front at a restaurant. So valet guys know exactly what they're looking at. (No, I'm not crazy about the concept of letting valet guys drive it; but you gotta live your life....)

thanks for your take. I find it funny however that even MT owners use the auto rev match feature regularly. I think it was a flaw for BMW to only allow non-auto rev match on Sport +. Sport + is virtually un-drivable. I can't imagine trying to do a complicated dance with the clutch and drive it in anything that can count as "smoothly" in Sport +. The Nissan 370Z is the only other car I'm aware of that has auto rev match and that feature can be turned on/off with a button.

Also, the MT on the M6 was carried over from the 550i MT. While I"ve never driven either MT cars, I often read that it's a mismatched transmission for the car and very difficult to drive smoothly.

BTW, I'm not a MT hater, I actually have been driving a MT between 2004 and 2018. (Evo 8 and M3)

[mjposner]

I have owned many manual cars, including 4 Ms, but once I experienced the dct I was hooked. I drive it like a manual, mo mode always on, S3 for dct and always shift. I can't even recall ever using the automatic mode.

As for the 8 speed auto box, I have driven the Jag Type f and the 328i with same and it is a very quick autobox, and I could easily live with that.

[tab]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

thanks for your take. I find it funny however that even MT owners use the auto rev match feature regularly. I think it was a flaw for BMW to only allow non-auto rev match on Sport +. Sport + is virtually un-drivable. I can't imagine trying to do a complicated dance with the clutch and drive it in anything that can count as "smoothly" in Sport +. The Nissan 370Z is the only other car I'm aware of that has auto rev match and that feature can be turned on/off with a button.

Also, the MT on the M6 was carried over from the 550i MT. While I"ve never driven either MT cars, I often read that it's a mismatched transmission for the car and very difficult to drive smoothly.

BTW, I'm not a MT hater, I actually have been driving a MT between 2004 and 2018. (Evo 8 and M3)

Yeah, I understand your sense that MT people should hate rev matching. But it makes it easier to drive smoothly. And the throttle blip on downshifts as it rev-matches sounds nice, and I'm never going to be able to re-create that blip myself.

You're right that Sport + throttle and no rev matching makes it awfully twitchy. That's OK as driver, because I know what's coming, and lack of grace is my own damned fault. And then hitting a Sport + throttle when there's an opening in traffic is a high point in this car. So I drive that way when alone in the car sometimes. But it is not OK for passengers to deal with that twitchiness. With throttle on plain Sport, it's not that hard to drive smoothly, I find.

I agree, I do wish it were a separate option, i.e. put "rev matching on/off" in some menu, rather than tied to the throttle map. Not an issue going forward, as they phase out manuals....

I think Camaros have rev matching. I think Vettes, too.

[Flying Ace]

Good post. As a prior member has said, I too am now converted to DCT. It's an amazing piece of technology. I think the programming is really good now for street driving.

Also, it's funny we're talking about driving smoothly...this morning, I had a stretch of open road on my way to work and I just hammered the car in manual S3 mode on the DCT. While the shift speeds on lightning quick, S3 is no where close to smooth either. My head snaps back at every upshift, thought the downshifts are butter smooth, which IMO is more important.

[PeterGross]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

And one more advantage of DCT over the MT in this car is the aggressive gear ratio... with almost 20% shorter in first gear (4.81 vs 4.06), DCT transfers 20% best heat gun with different key features torque to the rear wheels and it means FUN .. the same thing for other gears but not as much as first gear...
here are the gear ratios:


6 Speed Manual gear ratios
4.06/2.40/1.58/1.19/1.00/0.87 :1

7-speed M Double Clutch Transmission ratios
4.81/2.59/1.70/1.28 1.00/0.84/0.67 :1

Agree on that.

[Marcus Frost]

I'm sorry, but the DCT is boring and repetitive to me. I fully realize it is "faster" but this is a 4500lb car, and I much rather row through gears and be in control than flipping a paddle. I do like dual clutch transmissions in certain cars/applications, but for what I'm looking for it was 6-speed or nothing. I also do not drive my car in bumper to bumper traffic all the time. Bottom line, I would not own this car with a DCT transmission.

tbh I grow tired of the incessant bickering over the two - I wish they just gave us a choice. Those who like DCT, go for it. Those who want manual, go for it. It's like color, or coupe vs GC, or whatever. Some people like blue, or black, or whatever - and having choices is what makes it fun. I am grateful this M6 had a manual transmission option and plan on holding onto mine for a while (God Willing)