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      10-25-2017, 09:00 PM   #243
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Update 1: So we may not have gotten a Supra, but all was not lost! We were lucky enough to get up close and personal with the BMW Z4 concept, and while it is just a concept, it did allow us to get a feel for the platform and it's general proportions.



So the show was an absolute madhouse, with the world's press swarming every car, and the constant click and clack of a thousand DSLR shutters going off constantly. This isn't my first press event, but it was certainly the biggest. Luckily we got to the Z4 without too much trouble and were able to get relatively close up to it.



Here you can see how long the hood is. Certainly no SLS AMG, but definitely long for the size of the car. The concept itself appears to be maybe 10-20% bigger than what I believe the actual dimensions to be, so imagine this but just at a smaller scale.



The rear is certainly striking to look at. The lights are definitely impressive and really are the focal point of the rear end.







he wheels are pretty standard-fare BMW. 20s with Michelin Cup 2s, but who knows what we'll get in a production car. Take note of the BMW Hubs in their typical lug-bolt-style, 5x120 pattern. Let's just say that you guys you should get familiar with these...



I can appreciate a good buttress.



The interior on this concept is just that, a concept. While definitely cool to look at, you're not gonna see this in any production cars.





The front end is aite, I suppose. I'm not a huge fan, so I'll be really happy to see the Toyota version whenever we are lucky enough to see it.









So that's the Z4! It's no Supra, but definitely still a sight for sore eyes after the (lame) Toyota Briefing this morning. I'll continue to update this thread as I get pictures edited of the various cars of the show. The Mazda Kai Concept was definitely a show favorite!
http://www.supramkv.com/threads/albo...eo-thread.676/
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      11-10-2017, 11:29 PM   #244
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As a former Z4 M Coupe owner, I really wanted to love this car, but I just can't. It's unremarkable in every way.

Maybe if we get a coupe version it'll look better, but this is just uninspired and, well... boring.

That front lip is tacky as hell, too.
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      11-11-2017, 06:34 PM   #245
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New Z4

We have to give up the hard top to comply with Euro/ Eco rules. I wont have another soft top.
The concept is grotesque. No blood lines, except maybe from a new Honda Civic. Dopey oversize scoops.
I am sure the actual production car will be cleaned up and look OK but no more soft tops for me.

Last edited by impulsE89; 11-12-2017 at 07:16 AM..
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      11-11-2017, 06:51 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by impulsE89 View Post
We have to give up the hard top to comply with Euro/ Eco rules.
?!?
Why is that?
What european rule are you exactly reffering to?
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      11-12-2017, 07:15 AM   #247
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Standards

https://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/...hicles/cars_en

Complex subject. Notice the fines. weight savings has become crucial for meeting Co2 standards.
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      11-12-2017, 10:29 AM   #248
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I think the G29 is The best looking Bmw I’ve seen in years. In addition to saving weight and being mechanically simpler than a hard top, the soft top will let you drop the top with a trunk load of luggage or groceries.
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      11-12-2017, 03:30 PM   #249
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But you can

The top does go down, with items in the trunk. With luggage you probably will be on the interstate with the top up. When you arrive you unload and drop the top if you want to. Actually you can get luggage in there too.The hard top makes this car very versatile.
The soft tops are claustrophobic, visibility is annoying, the tops expendable and costly, the rear window deteriorates, the side windows don't seal, it balloons at highway speeds, and they don't like snow and ice.
I love roadsters and have had many. The soft top is something I no longer have to put up with, but I hope it does well. Perhaps the price will drop and the car will make the sporty pundits happy by saving a few pounds.
It is really all about Euro Co2 compliance.
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      11-12-2017, 05:42 PM   #250
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reminds me to new cayman design
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      11-12-2017, 06:29 PM   #251
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I like it, looks better than the E89 IMO.
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      11-13-2017, 08:40 AM   #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by impulsE89 View Post
The top does go down, with items in the trunk. With luggage you probably will be on the interstate with the top up. When you arrive you unload and drop the top if you want to. Actually you can get luggage in there too.The hard top makes this car very versatile.
The soft tops are claustrophobic, visibility is annoying, the tops expendable and costly, the rear window deteriorates, the side windows don't seal, it balloons at highway speeds, and they don't like snow and ice.
I love roadsters and have had many. The soft top is something I no longer have to put up with, but I hope it does well. Perhaps the price will drop and the car will make the sporty pundits happy by saving a few pounds.
It is really all about Euro Co2 compliance.
I have owned an E85Z4 since 2009. The rear window is heated glass and doesn’t deteriorate. The side windows seal properly and the roof absolutely does not balloon at highway speeds. And I’ve had my car to 100 mph.

And I have to say that there has been more than one occasion that the wife and I loaded up the trunk at Costco and drive home top down. You may prefer a hard top and that is your right but some of your statements about soft tops conflict with my experience with the E85.
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      11-13-2017, 08:55 AM   #253
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The bullet grille seems to be coming into vogue. Mercedes is using it, too.

But it's really a very old design, and neither of the German automakers has it in its heritage. General Motors does, during its gaudy period of over-the-top design.

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      11-13-2017, 10:07 AM   #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huz-Z View Post
I have owned an E85Z4 since 2009. The rear window is heated glass and doesn’t deteriorate. The side windows seal properly and the roof absolutely does not balloon at highway speeds. And I’ve had my car to 100 mph.
Always glad to hear positives. My statement was quite general about various roadsters and converts that I have had over the years.
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      11-14-2017, 11:30 AM   #255
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Originally Posted by impulsE89 View Post
Always glad to hear positives. My statement was quite general about various roadsters and converts that I have had over the years.
Cool! Hey, in that case, you may be pleasantly surprised with the soft top on the new Z4. It may be an idea to give the car a look in person, just in the event that you decide that this is one soft top that you could consider.

Cheers!
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      11-14-2017, 01:49 PM   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by impulsE89 View Post
https://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/...hicles/cars_en

Complex subject. Notice the fines. weight savings has become crucial for meeting Co2 standards.
Sorry to say, but it doesnt really work this way.
The weight is only a factor for the limit value curve, which sets the max. output for a vehicle. That means they can still make a big heavy suv with big engine (relatively big) but within limits.
The fleet average is independant of the weight.
But sure if the extra weight of the roof really adds up to the gas mileage of the car then its a decision they have to make: make z4's and less X6's or the other way around.

But if the extra weight of the folding metal roof really is such a deciding mechanical factor, one could ask themselves if that extra weight has a place on a sportscar.
From what I see people just dont want them anymore. Most people have a car like this as a second (often garaged) car so the weatherproof durability is no issue. Sportyness, and bootspace for a weekend out with the top down to enjoy the weather is probably more important. One of the reasons the 6 never came with a metal folding roof. The 6 conv is virtually always bought as a weekend car.
And for the Z it also shows in its sales figures. The e89 sold badly. And even worse: it sold very badly in its primary target market. It lost a big market segment. Thats why bmw changed over to the soft top again. Its a sales thing. Not a eu legislation thing.

As for ballooning on the highway: I live very close to the A31 in germany (probably one of germanys longest stretch of unlimited autobahn).
There the ballooning sometimes is a problem
But on the US snailbahn....not so much.
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Last edited by GuidoK; 11-14-2017 at 01:59 PM..
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      11-14-2017, 05:19 PM   #257
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Whatever

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
Sorry to say, but it doesnt really work this way.
From what I see people just dont want them anymore. Most people have a car like this as a second (often garaged) car so the weatherproof durability is no issue. Sportyness, and bootspace for a weekend out with the top down to enjoy the weather is probably more important. One of the reasons the 6 never came with a metal folding roof. The 6 conv is virtually always bought as a weekend car.
And for the Z it also shows in its sales figures. The e89 sold badly. And even worse: it sold very badly in its primary target market. It lost a big market segment. Thats why bmw changed over to the soft top again. Its a sales thing. Not a eu legislation thing.
.
I understand how you see it this way. There no doubt the car did not sell very well. The picture here in the USA as I see it here is that the Market is small and Corvette dominates with some very nice cars. More corvettes are sold than all the Sporty BMWs and Porches combined. They are considered a performance bargain.
BTW I am a big fan of the BMW motorsport acivities they support. At the track they invited me to sit in the racing z4 and chat with their very congenial drivers.
As for legislation, when I see Porsche risk replacing their iconic sixes with 4 cylinder turbos, I have to think that every ounce that can be taken out of a low production car and put into a hot selling Suv is vital to the survival of the company. Bmw makes about 1500 SUVs each day here in South Carolina. Look at the figures above. BMW is an SUV company and doing very well in that segment. Just my opinion but i believe legislation drives this kind of strategic weight reduction and fuel consumption whether here or in Euro.
Glad soft tops make more sense for you. In a luxury roadster I prefer the the metal roof. I will try to keep an open mind about the 2018 Z.
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      11-15-2017, 02:22 AM   #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by impulsE89 View Post


I understand how you see it this way. There no doubt the car did not sell very well. The picture here in the USA as I see it here is that the Market is small and Corvette dominates with some very nice cars. More corvettes are sold than all the Sporty BMWs and Porches combined. They are considered a performance bargain.
For sure the corvette is a firm competitor to the z4 in the us.
But in the past, the Z4 (and z3) outsold the boxster, even in the us.
When the e89 came, that didnt happen, especially in the 2nd half of its lifecycle. So I'm sure its a sales thing.
However the e89 did relatively well in europe compared to the US. But the US remains the target market because US models are usually better equipped so bmw on average earns more on every US car being sold than a european car (on average bigger engines, more luxury, and on those things a car maker makes the most money)

Quote:
As for legislation, when I see Porsche risk replacing their iconic sixes with 4 cylinder turbos, I have to think that every ounce that can be taken out of a low production car and put into a hot selling Suv is vital to the survival of the company.
Sure the 4 cyl boxster is there to compensate co2 emissions for 911, panamera and cayenne. Its the fleet average that a car maker is legislated (and taxed/fined) on. A european car maker can still make high co2 emitting cars, but they are either fined per gramme co2 (which is very very expenisve, even for top manufacturers like aston martin or ferrari), or they can compensate with small models. They are even allowed to compensate with other brands (as ferrari does with fiat, or porsche does with vw/seat/skoda whatever). And I have no doubt that peugeot/citroen sells co2 emission rights to other companies. The selling of emission rights is btw a normal thing, and has been since the 60's (in both europe and the US) It happens within other industries too.
As for porsche using 4 cyl engines, they did that very often in the past in the cheaper models:
914, 912, 924, 944, 968.

Quote:
Bmw makes about 1500 SUVs each day here in South Carolina. Look at the figures above. BMW is an SUV company and doing very well in that segment. Just my opinion but i believe legislation drives this kind of strategic weight reduction and fuel consumption whether here or in Euro.
Yes bmw does very well in the SUV segment, but globally they sell way way more 3 and 1or2 series etc. There's a reason why the SUV's are made in the states
But as far as the metal roof goes: it is not a legislation thing. The only legislation there is, is that a certain fleet average has to be met. You can have certain models emitting more as long as you compensate that somehow (either by having correspondent fuel efficient models, or buying emission right from other companies, or paying the extra fine)
It's also not said that a metal roof even increases gas mileage. Maybe heavier, but sometimes also better CW value. Its a fact that the e89 has a slightly lower drag coefficient than the e85.
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      02-04-2018, 08:32 PM   #259
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I thought these looked pretty cool.



















Last edited by supra93; 02-04-2018 at 08:45 PM..
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      05-10-2018, 12:09 PM   #260
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      07-19-2018, 08:45 AM   #261
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