Drivetrain Malfunction... Again!

[Angry Ketchup]

Originally Posted by StraightAero

Hi All! First post here, wish it was for a better reason.

So, I picked up a (CPO'd) 2012 F12 650i here in the UK. I had been loving it and put 5000mi on it since May, with many long trips from London to Newcastle etc.

Today, on the M25, while cruising easy at about 70mph.... DTM! Pulled over, shut off, restarted, waited, repeated. Had to limp it home. The vibrations and smell of petrol were intense.

I hear we don't get the CCP here in the UK and I'm worried. Anybody had any luck with UK dealers and this seemingly inherent N63 issue? I'm hoping it's something else that might have cropped up on a 5yr old car.... but all symptoms point to the systemic issue others have had, unfortunately.


(thanks for letting me vent! lol)

Hey, guys! Guess was I just got again?


So actually twice.. I don't think I posted about the last Drive Train Malfunction I got a 3 weeks ago that was the 3rd one.. I mighta forgot the second too since my virgin forum post quoted about.. silly me.

Rough timeline of the warranty work:

Sep 2017: DTM - replaced all 4 injectors on 1 bank and "cleaned top of engine" whatever that means

Feb 2018: DTM - replaced other bank's 4 injectors plus a fifth 1 from other side which were previously replaced in Sep17.

Today: Cruisin on motorway with cruise control set and... BAM! hard jerking, bad smell, hissing, exhaust rattling(?) and the sound of children's scissors in a blender. Those last two are new symptoms. Kinda sounds like the right turbo has a bag of coins in it or scissors. That's good, right?

Car barely moves and bucks wildy, unsafe to drive. Awaiting recovery as we speak. haha It's awesome. I love this car, man!

[upstate650]

Originally Posted by StraightAero

Hey, guys! Guess was I just got again?


So actually twice.. I don't think I posted about the last Drive Train Malfunction I got a 3 weeks ago that was the 3rd one.. I mighta forgot the second too since my virgin forum post quoted about.. silly me.

Rough timeline of the warranty work:

Sep 2017: DTM - replaced all 4 injectors on 1 bank and "cleaned top of engine" whatever that means

Feb 2018: DTM - replaced other bank's 4 injectors plus a fifth 1 from other side which were previously replaced in Sep17.

Today: Cruisin on motorway with cruise control set and... BAM! hard jerking, bad smell, hissing, exhaust rattling(?) and the sound of children's scissors in a blender. Those last two are new symptoms. Kinda sounds like the right turbo has a bag of coins in it or scissors. That's good, right?

Car barely moves and bucks wildy, unsafe to drive. Awaiting recovery as we speak. haha It's awesome. I love this car, man!

Ditch that car for a 2014+ N63tu. Worlds better.

[Angry Ketchup]

Originally Posted by upstate650

Ditch that car for a 2014+ N63tu. Worlds better.

Sadly, I have to. You're right, upstate650... We have other cars here in UK, but this was supposed to be my motorway-smasher/fun ride for cruising solo around this little island for work/fun. Damn, that will be so fun to do my weekly 850miles in our VW Tiguan or our new Peugeot 3008.... :/

I'm gonna whine... (where's the wine?)

I love(d) this F12 650i though and I knew what I was getting, taking a risk on the N63. I got her used with 1,200 miles. Hell, I had an E92 335xi in The States that went through 5 HPFPs and i still dealt with that.. cost me nothing by time sitting at at my BMW dealer, drinking their coffee and flirting with the hostesses. (The customer service experience isn't quite the same in the UK, mind you.) Even at 79k miles in the US BMW replaced both turbos under warranty. Here, they laugh at you when you mention the N63 CCP..... BMW biz decision = Brits suck it up, not used to Cust Service, screw em.. no CCP.

The 650i vert was so fun (when it ran) and has been under warranty (expiring soon). Great on my long motorway journeys, fun to drive around Central London (even as a 'commoner car'), and not too showy to worry about parked.
I can afford to repair it without a warranty, but that's stupid now. It's not the kinda of car that I should dump that kind of money into and consider it "my baby". It's not an old sentimental P car or a Ferrari....

Alas, woe is me. I am home now. The flatbed will take the car to my dealer. I'm sulking in my home office drinking pint cans of Stella and playing with the BMW configurator for an X5. I might just go with a bitchy "euro-diesel" and keep it as our 'UK car' for the long haul........ We'll be in The States more over the next few years possibly anyway. When does the US 8 Series configurator open up?

Woe is me. Woe is Woe. Woe.... woe. more Stella.

[upstate650]

Originally Posted by StraightAero

Sadly, I have to. You're right, upstate650... We have other cars here in UK, but this was supposed to be my motorway-smasher/fun ride for cruising solo around this little island for work/fun. Damn, that will be so fun to do my weekly 850miles in our VW Tiguan or our new Peugeot 3008.... :/

I'm gonna whine... (where's the wine?)

I love(d) this F12 650i though and I knew what I was getting, taking a risk on the N63. I got her used with 1,200 miles. Hell, I had an E92 335xi in The States that went through 5 HPFPs and i still dealt with that.. cost me nothing by time sitting at at my BMW dealer, drinking their coffee and flirting with the hostesses. (The customer service experience isn't quite the same in the UK, mind you.) Even at 79k miles in the US BMW replaced both turbos under warranty. Here, they laugh at you when you mention the N63 CCP..... BMW biz decision = Brits suck it up, not used to Cust Service, screw em.. no CCP.

The 650i vert was so fun (when it ran) and has been under warranty (expiring soon). Great on my long motorway journeys, fun to drive around Central London (even as a 'commoner car'), and not too showy to worry about parked.
I can afford to repair it without a warranty, but that's stupid now. It's not the kinda of car that I should dump that kind of money into and consider it "my baby". It's not an old sentimental P car or a Ferrari....

Alas, woe is me. I am home now. The flatbed will take the car to my dealer. I'm sulking in my home office drinking pint cans of Stella and playing with the BMW configurator for an X5. I might just go with a bitchy "euro-diesel" and keep it as our 'UK car' for the long haul........ We'll be in The States more over the next few years possibly anyway. When does the US 8 Series configurator open up?

Woe is me. Woe is Woe. Woe.... woe. more Stella.

That X5 ///M50d, though...

[Angry Ketchup]

My Service Advisor called today (6th day since it was brought to them on a flatbed) with an update, something like:

"There are 'air pipes' that run deep inside of your engine. That's how air gets inside to do things. 4 of them are broken. This is why your car is broken.

We need to ask Germany how to fix the deepest 'air pipe' because it is deep.

I'll have another update next Wednesday (5 days from now)."

Pure genius!


WTF does that even mean.........

[bravo261]

Originally Posted by upstate650

Ditch that car for a 2014+ N63tu. Worlds better.

i wish...my 2015 650i is terrible. i love this car and style, but ultimately regret it. i'm not rich and do not switch cars often, so this was supposed to last 10+ years, but in my 40k miles, i already had 4 malfunctions and a host of other issues

[upstate650]

Originally Posted by bravo261

i wish...my 2015 650i is terrible. i love this car and style, but ultimately regret it. i'm not rich and do not switch cars often, so this was supposed to last 10+ years, but in my 40k miles, i already had 4 malfunctions and a host of other issues

the 2014+ N63tu has been extremely reliable and trouble free so far. But, no matter how good a car manufacturer, there will always be lemons. Sorry to hear you got one.

[Angry Ketchup]

Originally Posted by upstate650

the 2014+ N63tu has been extremely reliable and trouble free so far. But, no matter how good a car manufacturer, there will always be lemons. Sorry to hear you got one.

That's very important to remember. For each of us that seek out a forum to commiserate our issues, there's dozens+ who never have an issue at all.


Again, I still enjoy the car even when it's broken.. lol. Hell, I cruised over to the dealer today to just pop in and see 'what's up'... and there was my 6er, washed and clean, right in front of the service department looking snazzzy.

The new 520d loaner I was driving doesn't evoke any similar feelings.


Just gotta decide what to do next.

[Angry Ketchup]

I shouldn't have complained... I earned some bad Karma perhaps...


My usual Service Advisor called me, a really good dude actually. 8 more injectors, some vacuum lines, magic Bavarian fairy dust, 3 pretzels, 2 pints of weissbier, etc... (<-- See? good vibes.)

BUT NOW.......

I had a cracked rear wheel.. 20" V-Spoke Style 356 bi-colour.... only £600 in cash to replace that.

[Angry Ketchup]

I picked up my 650i today after 2 weeks...

They had it all shiny and top down... rolled it around to me at the pickup point in front of the service lounge....

... and the top/windows malfunctioned. (!?) They wouldn't open/close or randomly started jerking around.


So... yeah.

They took it back inside and said they would order new window motors and modules for the roof mechanism. !? How? Why? It was fine when it got flat-bedded away... I mean, except for the fact that it needed a flatbed bc it wouldn't run. But I had windows!

[Angry Ketchup]

Originally Posted by StraightAero

I picked up my 650i today after 2 weeks...

They had it all shiny and top down... rolled it around to me at the pickup point in front of the service lounge....

... and the top/windows malfunctioned. (!?) They wouldn't open/close or randomly started jerking around.


So... yeah.

They took it back inside and said they would order new window motors and modules for the roof mechanism. !? How? Why? It was fine when it got flat-bedded away... I mean, except for the fact that it needed a flatbed bc it wouldn't run. But I had windows!

...and where is my 650i right now??? I DON'T KNOW. But it died with another DTM and is supposedly on a flatbed back to a greater London dealership. ha

Then, I took the train home from Newcastle.... the goddamn train broke down too!

[bravo261]

Originally Posted by StraightAero

...and where is my 650i right now??? I DON'T KNOW. But it died with another DTM and is supposedly on a flatbed back to a greater London dealership. ha

Then, I took the train home from Newcastle.... the goddamn train broke down too!

unfortunately, looks like i'm not the only one with persistent DTMs, but that is a consistent string of bad luck recently. hope your warranty is still in effect!

[Angry Ketchup]

Originally Posted by bravo261

unfortunately, looks like i'm not the only one with persistent DTMs, but that is a consistent string of bad luck recently. hope your warranty is still in effect!

We can commiserate, if you wish. ha I might find a counter for my sig like "Days since last DTM" like the accident posters we put up in factories.

Yes - still under warranty.

My 650i is like a delinquent child whom I love and I cannot accept the reality that they will continue to be a screw-up forever. I want to love it, and I do... I'm just happy that I have other children to talk about at the country club besides "that one"! LOL

[Angry Ketchup]

I called for an update today... no one knew anything, as usual. Though, they did remember to sell me the service which is due this month and some brakes. How nice.

Later, I was given an update of "So we got it up and are looking at it. Could be injectors - yeah, definitely some injectors. Also, we are confused by the fuel pumps. There could be some fuel pumps to look at. Call you back tomorrow... "

I think it was time for their cakes and daily naps. I'm glad he got it up... ha

Oh well. Still tooling around in a new 520d for now..

[FBMWWINS]

Thanks for keeping us posted. I am quite interested in how it will "end".
And I admire the "relaxed" way you are able to tell us about it with the subtle sense of humour. If I was in that situation I am not sure how I'd react.

[Angry Ketchup]

Originally Posted by F06WINS

Thanks for keeping us posted. I am quite interested in how it will "end".
And I admire the "relaxed" way you are able to tell us about it with the subtle sense of humour. If I was in that situation I am not sure how I'd react.

Ha... thanks for providing me the acknowledgement and attention that I obviously need to overcome this mess without turning to hookers & strong drink...

I was convinced that no one read my rants and I should just continue to have them in the mirror, at my PA, or with the dog.

I am no longer angry about the situation. In the grand scheme of things, I got a shatty deal with a toy car that I *sometimes* still get to enjoy. I still have other cars to drive and I'm now getting to tryout the rest of the new BMW line up. Initially I was getting the standard UK treatment of "Oh, your 650i vert is broken.. here, have a 214d and try not to kill yourself out of shame." But not they are giving me 5ers and X5s, so I guess that's good.

[FBMWWINS]

Hi to you,

indeed it's always good to exchange I believe and I am sure many others read with interest,
People will empathize though it's not always easy to find words or as you said guessing how to release the frustration when presented with such a "disaventure".
If you are getting 5er and X5 cars as courtesy vehicles that is at least a recognition that you are driving one of their PREMIUMS! Though this will be a small consolation compared to smoothy running vehicle as it should be!
Hopefully things will still turn out well in the end. Best of luck.

[burkhacs]

Has anyone actually had resolution to this? Getting spark plugs and ignition coils replaced right now for this issue (2013 N63T) and this thread has me worried about the rabbit hole I might be doing down...

[Angry Ketchup]

Just an update... I'm not really into being stupid and writing sarcastically tonight.

- 4 more injectors replaced (total at 30ish now)
- coils (couldn't get a straight answer. SA didn't understand concept. to email me full worksorder)
- 8 spark plugs
- a "fuel pipe"
- "some fuel pumps" because "your car has a lot of fuel and pump pipes". haha


SA was a nice guy trying his best.... and probably would make a good ice cream salesman or cashier at Tesco. Even for the Brits... his auto cust. service approach was abysmal. He did offer me "tea" over and over.. lol (those silly Breets)

One really funny exchange:

Me: "Would you please inflate tires to max tol all-around?"

SA: "Yes, we always fill the tyres, Sir."

Me: "That's good, but just making sure - you filled them to max tolerance per the workorder, right?"

SA: "We don't always follow workorders (crikey, blimey, me up mi duck, up me bum, love, cuppa tea?, blah blah blah........."

Me: "Ok... whatever, dude.... can we check the tires together?" (found to be at bottom tolerance)

SA: "Cuppa tea?"


:? Good old Brit customer service.... I'm sure he had a union-mandated tea break to go on, so it's not his fault. ha



Still my attitude is "whatever"... It makes sense as a toy and I can drive whatever I want I guess as a daily. When it isn't broken, I still enjoy it and it costs me nothing but hilarious conversation with incompetent Brit Service Advisers from time to time.

[tomg1551]

After driving 3's and 5's for 35 years,

I just picked up a 2014 650 convertible. 25k miles. I have put less that 200 miles on it and I just got the Drivetrain malfunction.
It is covered by the non-BMW dealer warranty where I purchased. I also bought a bumper to bumper 4 year 50k miles warranty.

My question/concern is................is this a sign of problems/issues to come? I have had great luck with BMWs my whole life.

My car has a prod date of 2013-09-25. It lists it as a N63T

Is there cause for concern here?



Comments?

[burkhacs]

FWIW my malfunctions were causes after adding bootmod3, I replaced all coils and plugs and it has been flawless since - thank god.

[RKCJ]

Originally Posted by tomg1551

After driving 3's and 5's for 35 years,

I just picked up a 2014 650 convertible. 25k miles. I have put less that 200 miles on it and I just got the Drivetrain malfunction.
It is covered by the non-BMW dealer warranty where I purchased. I also bought a bumper to bumper 4 year 50k miles warranty.

My question/concern is................is this a sign of problems/issues to come? I have had great luck with BMWs my whole life.

My car has a prod date of 2013-09-25. It lists it as a N63T

Is there cause for concern here?

Comments?

You have the "more" reliable N63TU engine. It's not flawless, but has had revisions to resolve the common issues the N63 have.