M6 vs. M4 as DD

[TAL2GK]

I have owned an E85 Z4 for 12 years and I love - but it has been a third car for me and not a daily driver. My employer has provided a boring daily driver for me.

Two changes: 1. I'm considering a new job that would not provide a daily driver & 2. We will be having a child expected in December, so the Z4 doesn't provide enough seats for all of us.

Given that this is an M6 forum, why would you recommend the M6 convertible over the M4 vert?

My concerns about M4 vert are just not enough luxury for the money and a harder ride. My concerns about the M6 convertible are the soft top being less practical for a daily driver, a larger car being less responsive on the twisties, and the additional cost might push me to the used market - meaning I won't be able to personally select colors/options.

I'm also considering just keeping the Z4 and buying something slightly more practical, like an M5, M6 GC, or RS7.

[2007 to 2016 M6 Cab]

Originally Posted by TAL2GK

I have owned an E85 Z4 for 12 years and I love - but it has been a third car for me and not a daily driver. My employer has provided a boring daily driver for me.

Two changes: 1. I'm considering a new job that would not provide a daily driver & 2. We will be having a child expected in December, so the Z4 doesn't provide enough seats for all of us.

Given that this is an M6 forum, why would you recommend the M6 convertible over the M4 vert?

My concerns about M4 vert are just not enough luxury for the money and a harder ride. My concerns about the M6 convertible are the soft top being less practical for a daily driver, a larger car being less responsive on the twisties, and the additional cost might push me to the used market - meaning I won't be able to personally select colors/options.

I'm also considering just keeping the Z4 and buying something slightly more practical, like an M5, M6 GC, or RS7.

My kids grew up in the rear seats of a 2007 M6 cab, and now are in the rear seats of a 2016 M6 cab ... rear facing seats fit well, as do forward facing, baby seats, and booster seats.

I'd simply try and fit those into the rear seats of the M4 Cab and see if you can comfortably fit ... for us there was not enough room in the M3/M4 cabs ... and the M6 is a more rare beast!

Hope this helps!

[aznkuja328]

F83 (M4 Cab) vs F12 (M6 Cab), F83 is always more practical as a DD because of the smaller size, e.g. more livable on city roads. Comfort level, F12 is more comfortable than F83. Rear seats aren't concerned when you are looking at a cab because rear seats are pretty much useless. Trunk space, F12 is larger. Handling, F83 is better. F12 looks more mature. F83 depreciates less. At the end, it all depends on what you are really seeking for.

If you are comparing M6 GC to RS7 in speed, there is no game. RS7 is so much faster after a tune. However, I like the look of GC better. Spend some time and test drive all of them, that will probably make you a better decision.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by aznkuja328

F83 (M4 Cab) vs F12 (M6 Cab), F83 is always more practical as a DD because of the smaller size, e.g. more livable on city roads. Comfort level, F12 is more comfortable than F83. Rear seats aren't concerned when you are looking at a cab because rear seats are pretty much useless. Trunk space, F12 is larger. Handling, F83 is better. F12 looks more mature. F83 depreciates less. At the end, it all depends on what you are really seeking for.

+1

Also M6 is faster, has more power/ torque and is a real monster
The only issue I have with M6 Cab, is the soft roof and if it was hard roof I would go for it but it's just my opinion... I know many people like soft roof more than hard roof...

[2007 to 2016 M6 Cab]

Originally Posted by aznkuja328

F83 (M4 Cab) vs F12 (M6 Cab), F83 is always more practical as a DD because of the smaller size, e.g. more livable on city roads. Comfort level, F12 is more comfortable than F83. Rear seats aren't concerned when you are looking at a cab because rear seats are pretty much useless. Trunk space, F12 is larger. Handling, F83 is better. F12 looks more mature. F83 depreciates less. At the end, it all depends on what you are really seeking for.

If you are comparing M6 GC to RS7 in speed, there is no game. RS7 is so much faster after a tune. However, I like the look of GC better. Spend some time and test drive all of them, that will probably make you a better decision.

+2

my M6 cab is only daily driver in summer ... she is a bit of an exhibitionist ... she no like going out unless topless

[mjposner]

I currently have an E93 M3 and I am considering a switch. Budget is 75k max. So new M4 convertible? I can get a cpo used 2013 M6 locally for 71k. Loaded with the B & O. It is a DD in South Florida. No kids, rarely if ever use back seats. Top down as much as possible. Love the DCT. Thoughts?

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by mjposner

I currently have an E93 M3 and I am considering a switch. Budget is 75k max. So new M4 convertible? I can get a cpo used 2013 M6 locally for 71k. Loaded with the B & O. It is a DD in South Florida. No kids, rarely if ever use back seats. Top down as much as possible. Love the DCT. Thoughts?

Read post#3

[Twitch Massacre]

Originally Posted by aznkuja328

F83 (M4 Cab) vs F12 (M6 Cab), F83 is always more practical as a DD because of the smaller size, e.g. more livable on city roads. Comfort level, F12 is more comfortable than F83. Rear seats aren't concerned when you are looking at a cab because rear seats are pretty much useless. Trunk space, F12 is larger. Handling, F83 is better. F12 looks more mature. F83 depreciates less. At the end, it all depends on what you are really seeking for.

If you are comparing M6 GC to RS7 in speed, there is no game. RS7 is so much faster after a tune. However, I like the look of GC better. Spend some time and test drive all of them, that will probably make you a better decision.

I don't believe the F12 has a larger trunk. I've found my friend's M4 had more trunk space (because his back seats fold down) and more rear legroom than my M6. Also the RS7 is not faster with equal mods the M6 will lose any race from a dig but will walk away from the RS7 every time from a roll.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by mjposner

I currently have an E93 M3 and I am considering a switch. Budget is 75k max. So new M4 convertible? I can get a cpo used 2013 M6 locally for 71k. Loaded with the B & O. It is a DD in South Florida. No kids, rarely if ever use back seats. Top down as much as possible. Love the DCT. Thoughts?

Why are you wasting your time with us?
M6...MAKE THE DEAL!!!

[aznkuja328]

Originally Posted by Twitch Massacre

I don't believe the F12 has a larger trunk. I've found my friend's M4 had more trunk space (because his back seats fold down) and more rear legroom than my M6. Also the RS7 is not faster with equal mods the M6 will lose any race from a dig but will walk away from the RS7 every time from a roll.

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear enough.

I was talking about the trunk space with the top down since we are comparing the convertibles. When we talk about trunk space, we shouldn't take the passenger volume into account, otherwise the overall passenger volume of the F12 is larger than the F83 (although the rear seats don't fold on the M6, the overall seating area is wider).

Volume of the trunk:

1) M6 F12 trunk has 350 liters/ 12.36 cu ft top up and 300 liters/ 10.59 cu ft top down. (variation ~14.29%)
2) M4 F83 trunk has 370 liters/ 13.07 cu ft top up and 220 liters/ 7.77 cu ft top down (because of the hard top - variation ~40.54%).

Leg room:

It depends on the seating position of the driver and the front passenger to figure out the relative leg room for the rear passengers.

1) M6 front 42.1 in and rear 30.5 in.
http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/m6/2016/c...eatures-specs/
2) M4 front 42.2 in and rear 33.7 in.
http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/m4/2015/c...eatures-specs/

It is true that the M4 has 3.2 inches more of rear passenger leg room but the OP's baby will probably not benefit from that for at least 3 years depending on his size and speed of growth.

I don't understand how a car is faster than the other when it's slower from a dig. There are too many variables involved such as the gears and inertia when doing a roll. Why is it faster? What do you mean by equal mods? Equal size of turbo? Equal psi of boost? Equal engine capacity? FYI, M6 is 4.4TT V8 while RS7 is 4.0TT V8. I don't own a RS7 but i wish the M6 is faster too.

Lastly, I want to but can't believe that a M6 will walk away from the RS7 every time from a roll.

Both cars have just a tune in this vid (camera car is RS7):

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by aznkuja328

I don't understand how a car is faster than the other when it's slower from a dig. There are too many variables involved such as the gears and inertia when doing a roll. Why is it faster? What do you mean by equal mods? Equal size of turbo? Equal psi of boost? Equal engine capacity? FYI, M6 is 4.4TT V8 while RS7 is 4.0TT V8. I don't own a RS7 but i wish the M6 is faster too.

In perfect condition a car that is faster from dig might be faster in rolling too BUT there is no perfect condition in term of M6. In fact M6 is RWD and from dig cannot put all the power and torque down as well as an AWD car and that's why RS7 is faster than M6 from dig. In rolling races the story is different. RS7 is hevier than M6 and is AWD so if both car generate the same amount of power (an torque) at crank then RWD have less drivetrain loss than AWD so the actual power of a RWD car at wheels is more than an AWD with the same amount of power at crank. In rolling races the main factor is "power to weight ratio" and the winner is the one which has higher hp/lb. Let me give you a real example:
RS7 has 560 HP and weighs 4409 lb. Considering 15% drivetrain loss, this car sends 476 HP to the wheels so the power to weight ratio at wheel is 0.108 HP/lb.
M6 GC has 560 HP (however it's underrated) and weighs 4365 lb. Considering 12% drivetrain loss, this car sends 492 HP to the rear wheels so the power to weight ratio is 0.112 HP/lb. As a record you can see the real world comparison here: http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...specs-page-5-2

RS7 is faster from dig (ie 0-60 or 1/4 mile) but can go 60-130 mph in 9.7 second while M6GC can go 60-130 mph in 9.5 second....
even in that link M6 is faster than RS7 when they go 5-60 mph where the traction issue is put out of picture...
Look at this table from that link. The first column is RS7 and the second one is M6 GC...

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by aznkuja328

Lastly, I want to but can't believe that a M6 will walk away from the RS7 every time from a roll.

Watch this video to see how a tuned RWD M6 can beat a tuned AWD CLS 63 (almost the same car as RS7) in rolling while both have almost the same power

[hjs1971]

I drove a 2015 euro spec M4 hardtop in Germany for a week this summer and have had my 2012 M6 vert for about a week now...my daily driver is a 2008 335xi with about 430hp. Anyway, for a dd, the M4 would be great, handles like a sports car should, sounds great and was fun. My M6 doesn't sound like it has 560hp, is a little more "boat like" in handling, and is a little harsher on U.S. roads with the optional 20" wheels. That being said, for a weekend drop top, the luxury of the M6 is hard to beat. If it's a dd, I'd say M4, if it's a weekend cruiser and you need the best luxury money can buy, M6. Funny aside, I pulled up next to a real nice M4 vert at a restaurant Sunday night and said to my wife, "nice car!", then I remembered I was in my M6 and parked right next to him just because...that's a feeling reserved for M6 drivers only

[aznkuja328]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

Watch this video to see how a tuned RWD M6 can beat a tuned AWD CLS 63 (almost the same car as RS7) in rolling while both have almost the same power

I was talking about a tuned rs7 from the beginning, and as I noticed that cls63 isn't the s model with awd also it doesn't have a true dual clutch transmission, thus more drivetrain loss from transmission. FYI, Andy from mhp (the tuner on the cls in the vid) always overrates the number of hp on his tunes. that vid of tuned m5 vs tuned rs7 wasn't fair enough to prove m6 will not always win a rs7 from a rolling start no?

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by aznkuja328

I was talking about a tuned rs7 from the beginning, and as I noticed that cls63 isn't the s model with awd also it doesn't have a true dual clutch transmission, thus more drivetrain loss from transmission. FYI, Andy from mhp (the tuner on the cls in the vid) always overrates the number of hp on his tunes. that vid of tuned m5 vs tuned rs7 wasn't fair enough to prove m6 will not always win a rs7 from a rolling start no?

Well with respect to what you were referring, the video I posted is about tuned cars (700+ HP) regardless of S or non S model and It's AWD. Also regarding to DCT, CLS63 AMG (700+HP here) has MCT (multiple clutch transmission) which is much faster than ZF870HP (Audi RS7 transmission)... so FYI RS7 does not have DCT either...

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by aznkuja328

I was talking about a tuned rs7 from the beginning, and as I noticed that cls63 isn't the s model with awd also it doesn't have a true dual clutch transmission, thus more drivetrain loss from transmission. FYI, Andy from mhp (the tuner on the cls in the vid) always overrates the number of hp on his tunes. that vid of tuned m5 vs tuned rs7 wasn't fair enough to prove m6 will not always win a rs7 from a rolling start no?

You can watch this video too...
690 HP E63 AMG 4matic vs M6

[aznkuja328]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

Well with respect to what you were referring, the video I posted is about tuned cars (700+ HP) regardless of S or non S model and It's AWD. Also regarding to DCT, CLS63 AMG (700+HP here) has MCT (multiple clutch transmission) which is much faster than ZF870HP (Audi RS7 transmission)... so FYI RS7 does not have DCT either...

i had a cls63 4 years ago, and the 4-matic (awd) option was available only on s model that was introduced later... the majority of cls63 we see on the road here in the states are rwd...

the mct from mercedes isn't a real dct (the real one is called speedshift dct)... and the tranny on the RS7 isn't a dct too because audi claims that their s-tronic isn't reliable enough to handle too much torque. the m-dct on m cars is superior to many dct out there such as the dct on r35 gtr. i don't want to compare a v6 3.8TT awd gtr with dct to a v8 4.4tt rwd m6 with better dct.

the amg cars may have open differentials too, then why are we comparing the m6 to amg cars now?
don't get me wrong, i like the m6 a lot better than rs7 and that's why i have one. i know m cars always beat amg.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by aznkuja328

i had a cls63 4 years ago, and the 4-matic (awd) option was available only on s model that was introduced later... the majority of cls63 we see on the road here in the states are rwd...

the mct from mercedes isn't a real dct (the real one is called speedshift dct)... and the tranny on the RS7 isn't a dct too because audi claims that their s-tronic isn't reliable enough to handle too much torque. the m-dct on m cars is superior to many dct out there such as the dct on r35 gtr. i don't want to compare a v6 3.8TT awd gtr with dct to a v8 4.4tt rwd m6 with better dct.

the amg cars may have open differentials too, then why are we comparing the m6 to amg cars now?
don't get me wrong, i like the m6 a lot better than rs7 and that's why i have one. i know m cars always beat amg.

LOL...
so what's your point when you know all superiority of M6 and DCT and M Active differential? and the fact that RS7 does not have DCT? what's the discussion here?

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by aznkuja328

i had a cls63 4 years ago, and the 4-matic (awd) option was available only on s model that was introduced later... the majority of cls63 we see on the road here in the states are rwd...

the mct from mercedes isn't a real dct (the real one is called speedshift dct)... and the tranny on the RS7 isn't a dct too because audi claims that their s-tronic isn't reliable enough to handle too much torque. the m-dct on m cars is superior to many dct out there such as the dct on r35 gtr. i don't want to compare a v6 3.8TT awd gtr with dct to a v8 4.4tt rwd m6 with better dct.

the amg cars may have open differentials too, then why are we comparing the m6 to amg cars now?
don't get me wrong, i like the m6 a lot better than rs7 and that's why i have one. i know m cars always beat amg.

BTW have you watched this video? ....This 550 HP M4 did a good job against 700 HP RS7.....Hopefully you believe a tuned M6 is much faster than a tuned M4...

[TAL2GK]

Helpful information, gents.

I've also found a few clean 2-year old 911 S cabrios which have piqued my interest. High marks for daily driver ability, but I don't think a rear facing seat is possible in those rear "seats" and the frunk may not hold enough. The Z4 trunk has proven surprisingly large and even though it was rarely my DD - it came in handy on a few occasions.

I'll be driving all soon, I'm just mentally masturbating until the baby comes and the job opportunity resolves itself in the next month or so.

To be clear, this purchase will be a 2nd car. My wife has an SUV which will do most of the family duties.

Great stuff.

[aznkuja328]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

LOL...
so what's your point when you know all superiority of M6 and DCT and M Active differential? and the fact that RS7 does not have DCT? what's the discussion here?

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

BTW have you watched this video? ....This 550 HP M4 did a good job against 700 HP RS7.....Hopefully you believe a tuned M6 is much faster than a tuned M4...

it is because you claimed that the mercedes mct is dct and said cls63 is basically the same car as the rs7. that's just wrong from the beginning, and now you figure out that's misleading and not a very good example right? you jumped from cls63 vs m6 to e63 vs m6 then m4 vs rs7 to show that the rs7 is slower... why not just a m5/m6 vs rs7 and that was the original discussion i was bringing up. i still believe the rs7 is faster, but i like the build quality and overall handling of the m6 a lot better. i care about handling but not the crank hp numbers. m4 has better handling but not as comfortable as a m6, at least for me.

it is still irrelevant for the m4 vs rs7 video... basically the rs7 has just a tune on it, but the m4 is stage 2, so it has exhaust mods other than a tune. also we don't know what kinda tires are on the cars... anyway, i have learnt a lot from the info you have shared, and we can leave those as the topics when we bump into each other in irvine. i seriously don't care about the crank hp; i have experienced a tuned rs7 vs a tuned m5, and the experience tells me rs7 after a tune is faster. i didn't do any drag race nor rolling race, just by driving around the blocks with an aim solo.

[M6-Coupe]

The same M4 vs tuned M6