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      10-14-2014, 08:22 PM   #45
doug_999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezmaass View Post
So, I test drove the 650xi GC today...

First impressions:

1. It's clearly not as nimble as my 550xi.

2. Throttle response - I drive my 550xi in comfort mode 90% of the time - other 10% in sport. In comfort, the 650xi felt much more sluggish to respond. I know it's a few hundred pounds heavier, but I feel like the throttle tuning must be different? It was very noticeably slower to respond. I had to mash it more to get it to move. Even then, I'm not sure it was as quick.

3. The interior is very nice. The leather, and in all places it exists, is a NICE upgrade from the 550xi. It's softer, more supple feeling, and just overall looks nicer and higher quality.

4. Seating position and seats - the seating position is considerably lower if you adjust the seat to its lowest position (which I did as I'm tall). In that position, I feel like I'm much lower than the 5's lowest position. Then again, I also felt like I could hardly judge the corners of the car. The seats were also noticeably harder - something I'd expect from a sportier car, but still very acceptable.

Overall, I'm not sure I can justify the move. I'm disappointed that the 5 feels more nimble and quick, yet the 6 LOOKS more nimble and quick. I would gladly give up a bit of seat comfort, deal with the longer dimensions, and even suck up the higher price... but I'm not sure I like the way the car drove. Don't get me wrong - it felt plenty capable, but I'm just surprised the 5 felt more light on its feet and responsive.

The flip side to that was that the 6GC feels a bit more planted. The 5 is a very stable cruiser on the highway, but the 6GC took it to a higher level. As I said above, it also adds a notch in refinement with nicer leather finishes and appointments. Other than that, the equipment is pretty much on par from car to car.
Exactly
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      10-14-2014, 08:25 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdrobc13 View Post
Get a tune...few are avail from Burger I think to Dinan for the 6 series and it will take care of the throttle response. Also keep it in Sport mode. In comfort and comfort plus there is noticeable difference in throttle response and it isn't as quick as you would initially think given its sporty background and driving stance. Same issue I had with my '12 550i OEM...it wasn't until I went to Dinan Stage 3 and beyond and put on better/bigger intercoolers that I found the car to drive waay more sporty than the OEM 5 series I purchased. Agree with the sight lines and driving in the 6 series..I am not as comfortable on its size yet than in my 550 but I've had the car about 1 mo. It is a larger car no way around that...however it does feel very planted and drives much smaller than it looks. I think part of what you are referring to is sight lines due to smaller back window, lower driving position and longer nose/hood. I do take turns in the 650 wondering at times how close I am to my turn in/curb etc and its definitely NOT my Porsche in terms of point and shoot! But it isn't that bad and a few upgrades should take care of that nicely much as I found with my 550i out the box from BMW also.
Also my car has DHP and feels very planted and nimble.

Remember they make an M6 GC and no review I've read has complained about it not being nimble or sporty so its possible. Just from what I've seen BMW has softened both the base 5 and 6 series some and both require a few changes (such as m5 front sways and ECU tunes on the 550 to get it up to sporty standards seen in the M5 and likewise with the 6). However I think most owners and reviewers have found the opposite in saying the 6 series actually drive much more sport than the 5 series (at east the coupe and vert versions) probably due to driving position, chassis dynamics, and such. Good luck with whatever you do...
These are good points. I HATED the 550xi I test drove without DHP - it wasn't until I drove one with DHP that I decided I could buy it. It just totally changed the car. The 550i (non xDrive) could get the MSport suspension, but not the xDrive... so DHP was a must to get a better drive. I'm guessing the 650xi is similar, so I probably didn't get the best experience there. Unfortunately, the dealer didn't have a DHP car. Quite honestly, on a $100k+ car, I don't even think BMW should sell it without DHP. Like the 5, it's just too large and lumbering for a softer standard suspension... never thought I'd be saying that about a BMW. How times have changed!

I think I'd definitely look into a tune for the 650xi if I got it to fix the throttle response but also add some power to it. It's a seriously heavy car. The stock TT V8 has great power, and maybe it was all poor throttle response, but a tune couldn't hurt.

I don't know - I'll need to consider it. I think you're right though - the fixes here are probably easy enough. I also need to see what they'll ding me with on the 550xi. I'm guessing it'll be ugly. My wife is eyeing up a new Range Rover Sport, so that may end up the priority, too.
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      10-14-2014, 08:54 PM   #47
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There is no DHP on the 650s per se. They all come with DDC standard. Adaptive Drive with ARS is the only suspension option. When you order DHP on a 5 series, you get all three, DDC, AD and ARS.

AD is really nothing more than software that brings DDC and ARS together to work in unison.
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      10-14-2014, 09:26 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bönz View Post
There is no DHP on the 650s per se. They all come with DDC standard. Adaptive Drive with ARS is the only suspension option. When you order DHP on a 5 series, you get all three, DDC, AD and ARS.

AD is really nothing more than software that brings DDC and ARS together to work in unison.
I think the ARS would be very helpful (car wasn't fitted with it) - I can certainly feel the difference in the 5. Yes, I saw there was no DHP option but rather just separate a la carte options - I recall seeing one in the configurator for ARS.

On an unrelated topic, I'm still confused why BMW doesn't offer parking assist on the xDrive version of these cars - unfortunate.
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      10-14-2014, 09:29 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezmaass View Post
On an unrelated topic, I'm still confused why BMW doesn't offer parking assist on the xDrive version of these cars - unfortunate.
I believe you need electric assisted steering to do that on the BMWs.
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      10-15-2014, 05:51 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doug_999 View Post
I believe you need electric assisted steering to do that on the BMWs.
Correct. The x drives still use a hydraulic power steering system.
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      10-15-2014, 10:08 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doug_999 View Post
I believe you need electric assisted steering to do that on the BMWs.
This makes sense - I guess it's a trade-off. I DO like the older hydraulic steering feel, but I know it's on its way out the door.
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      10-17-2014, 12:11 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezmaass View Post
This makes sense - I guess it's a trade-off. I DO like the older hydraulic steering feel, but I know it's on its way out the door.
Me too...on advantage of the xi I hear since the AWD gear doesn't allow BMW room/way to route the electric steering the way they want as on the non Xi cars which have the new electronic assisted steering. Car drives better and is more sporty from a steering feel standpoint I feel vs my 550i cause of this part. Helps alleviate some of the difference in length and width in the 650 as well as how much lower you sit. My 2 cents.
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      10-17-2014, 12:22 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezmaass View Post
These are good points. I HATED the 550xi I test drove without DHP - it wasn't until I drove one with DHP that I decided I could buy it. It just totally changed the car. The 550i (non xDrive) could get the MSport suspension, but not the xDrive... so DHP was a must to get a better drive. I'm guessing the 650xi is similar, so I probably didn't get the best experience there. Unfortunately, the dealer didn't have a DHP car. Quite honestly, on a $100k+ car, I don't even think BMW should sell it without DHP. Like the 5, it's just too large and lumbering for a softer standard suspension... never thought I'd be saying that about a BMW. How times have changed!

I think I'd definitely look into a tune for the 650xi if I got it to fix the throttle response but also add some power to it. It's a seriously heavy car. The stock TT V8 has great power, and maybe it was all poor throttle response, but a tune couldn't hurt.



I don't know - I'll need to consider it. I think you're right though - the fixes here are probably easy enough. I also need to see what they'll ding me with on the 550xi. I'm guessing it'll be ugly. My wife is eyeing up a new Range Rover Sport, so that may end up the priority, too.
Car goes tomorrow for new exhaust - too quiet for me. I barely know its on when I hit the start button. Need a bit more engine exhaust to go with the V8 and sporty look. Eissenman Race will do nicely. Also car will get proper quad tips as well as in the M6 GC and improved rear diffuser. Finally will add the following items from Dinan (Stage 3 ECU software) and Intercoolers

http://dinancars.com/products/?serie...ies&model=650i & xdrive gran coupe-f06&mid=1173

Looks like they just released an exhaust too. I did the ECU Stages 5 and Intercoolers on my 550i before I let it go and it transformed the car. Go search under Mdrobc13 and see my upgrades. It made the car basically an M5 equal performance wise when I wanted too but civilized enough that day to day driving was great and like any other 550i. Best of both worlds really. Will do this again with the 650 GC. Yes Dinan is expensive but then my feeling is when you spend $100k on a car like this on some things you can save a dime but others you will have to pay the piper so to speak...and engine mods and performance tweaks such as this I'll pay the premium for piece of mind and the R&D and design as well as dealer network that goes into Dinan's stuff. Had it on multiple BMW's and never a problem and each of my dealers have been Dinan dealers so definitely a plus.

Will keep you posted but yes I think with a few upgrades and maybe swaps from the M6 GC where they fit the car can be improved. I wouldn't let the slow throttle and DHP issue you saw with your test drive deter you...if you can't conquer the hill directly flank it and go around and build the BMW that BMW won't for yourself is my motto!
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