Holding off on Dinan stage 1

[Jeff73]

After much negative reviews, I've decided to delay my installation. I called Dinan to inform them of the poor performance and they said they are unaware of this? I asked them to have anyone who had the stage one installed in either an M5 or M6 call me. As of yet...no one!

[wrsbmw]

I have Stage 2 and it gave me 60-70hp when it worked, right now the DTronics is being swapped. I told the dealer to hustle it up and get all my stuff done today so I can test it tomorrow. I will be posting Vbox data if they get it done today per my request.

If you want to know the story, check my thread over in the M5 forum.

[Jeff73]

yes, please keep me posted. I'd hate to waste my time and $ if the results are nominal.

[EuroKar]

Originally Posted by Jeff73

After much negative reviews, I've decided to delay my installation. I called Dinan to inform them of the poor performance and they said they are unaware of this? I asked them to have anyone who had the stage one installed in either an M5 or M6 call me. As of yet...no one!

Negative reviews are from people who don't have it installed.
Unfortunately, people are going to hate on something they cant afford, just what it seems to be seen around the forums.
What are they comparing it to ? BMS ?
That's like apples to oranges.
Completely different. Anyone who says "ohh is the same thing". They have no idea what they are talking about.
Dinan's tune works great.
BMS tune works great.
I've installed and driven both multiple times.
PM me for questions you have and I'll give my honest opinion on both.

[VintageFerrari]

Originally Posted by wrsbmw

If you want to know the story, check my thread over in the M5 forum.

Can you post the weblink for your thread on the F10 M5 forum?

[bigbrian]

Originally Posted by EuroKar

Unfortunately, people are going to hate on something they cant afford, just what it seems to be seen around the forums.

Ehhhh c'mon man that might be stretching it a little bit.

Originally Posted by EuroKar

What are they comparing it to ? BMS ?
That's like apples to oranges.

I am curious why you think it's apples to oranges? It's my understanding both (DINAN and BMS) piggy back on the sensors that are attached to the chiller boxes. What does one do that the other does not -- bluetooth aside?

Originally Posted by EuroKar

Dinan's tune works great.
BMS tune works great.

I am sure they both work great. I think the 'hating' going on is from people that don't see the advantage of an expensive DINAN tune vs. an inexpensive BMS tune.

What it really comes down to is this... They both do the same shit via manipulation of sensors. People that like "DINAN" are going to buy DINAN partly because of the brand and partly because they get a 'warm-n-fuzzy' trusted feeling they are buying "DINAN". I think the HP/Torque freaks are going to run with the BMS because the numbers are better. I myself would certainly not drop the cash on the DINAN tune and give up my BMS tune as I have no flippin' idea why I would do that -- no reason for it.

Just throwing out my 02 cents... Take it for what it is.

Brian

[Twitch Massacre]

Originally Posted by EuroKar

Negative reviews are from people who don't have it installed.
Unfortunately, people are going to hate on something they cant afford, just what it seems to be seen around the forums.
What are they comparing it to ? BMS ?
That's like apples to oranges.
Completely different. Anyone who says "ohh is the same thing". They have no idea what they are talking about.
Dinan's tune works great.
BMS tune works great.
I've installed and driven both multiple times.
PM me for questions you have and I'll give my honest opinion on both.

Well I for one wouldn't spend my money on Dinan's "tune". I think to say that some of us are shying away from it cause we can't afford it is a bit ridiculous. The price of the Dinan is small compared to the mods some of us have done on our cars, the only difference is those mods justified themselves. Being an educated buyer doesn't mean we are "hating". The Dinan would have justified it's price if A) it resulted in gains superior to that of the BMS box, or B) it was a proper ECU tune and not just a piggyback manipulating a few sensors. Now some may prefer the Dinan and will ultimately buy it, I just can't see it myself why I would need to choose that over the alternative. And yes, they are the same thing, exactly, bluetooth aside, both go about doing their jobs in the exact same way. There is no real change to engine mapping itself here, just a box tricking the sensors to make the engine increase boost, nobody needs an engineering degree to understand that.

[wrsbmw]

Originally Posted by VintageFerrari

Can you post the weblink for your thread on the F10 M5 forum?

here

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by EuroKar

Negative reviews are from people who don't have it installed.
Unfortunately, people are going to hate on something they cant afford, just what it seems to be seen around the forums.
What are they comparing it to ? BMS ?
That's like apples to oranges.
Completely different. Anyone who says "ohh is the same thing". They have no idea what they are talking about.
Dinan's tune works great.
BMS tune works great.
I've installed and driven both multiple times.
PM me for questions you have and I'll give my honest opinion on both.

Put up better numbers , hell even similar numbers than mine with DP's and BMS on 93 octane , 0 slope and a 90 degree + 2000 foot density altitude and a damp track then talk . There is zero reason I've seen so far to justify the cost. Intelligent well to do people don't make their money buy paying more for a product with the same or worse results . People will pay for expensive parts if they perform .

[EuroKar]

Originally Posted by bigbrian

Ehhhh c'mon man that might be stretching it a little bit.


I am curious why you think it's apples to oranges? It's my understanding both (DINAN and BMS) piggy back on the sensors that are attached to the chiller boxes. What does one do that the other does not -- bluetooth aside?


I am sure they both work great. I think the 'hating' going on is from people that don't see the advantage of an expensive DINAN tune vs. an inexpensive BMS tune.

What it really comes down to is this... They both do the same shit via manipulation of sensors. People that like "DINAN" are going to buy DINAN partly because of the brand and partly because they get a 'warm-n-fuzzy' trusted feeling they are buying "DINAN". I think the HP/Torque freaks are going to run with the BMS because the numbers are better. I myself would certainly not drop the cash on the DINAN tune and give up my BMS tune as I have no flippin' idea why I would do that -- no reason for it.

Just throwing out my 02 cents... Take it for what it is.

Brian

And I agree with your Brian. Maybe my comment about "Not being able to afford Dinan" was blunt but, that's usually the most negative out of any reviews I read about Dinan.
Sure their products are not cheap, I agree. And yes with Dinan you do get the backing of a larger company that "if" your vehicle does fail what's going to happen if you were running BMS ? Everyone says "just remove it and no one will know".. I laugh at that because they think that dealer techs wont be able to find it out, the truth is that they can. So aside from the peace of mind from that, you will have pretty similar performance numbers from both. (If you leave your BMS setting around 2.5)
With BMS you will have stronger gains because it is user friendly and allows us to raise the boost at our own desire. Sure its faster, is it safer ? No one really knows. Who tunes the BMS boxes ? What's really being controlled thru 2 sensors and the box ? These questions have been addressed to BMS many many times by myself and others with no solid response. And its not to bash BMS, I have ran BMS and have been very satisfied with the results.
The Dinan Dtronics connects directly to both factory computers to control/produce a much more larger and smoother control of all aspects that your ECU's are putting out. The engine's characteristic is smoother and the control of the engines changes to how we are driving the car respond better.
If anyone is in Socal and want to have a ride along, I have no problem doing so

[Twitch Massacre]

Well, let's be honest here. The dealer would have no chance of figuring out that BMS caused the issue, if that were to happen, if you do remove the box and clear the fault codes. At that point they would be acting on suspicion and laying any blame would be the equivalent of pointing accusations at a customer, which no respectable business would risk doing without concrete proof. But from another perspective, you are correct it is much safer to run the Dinan from a warranty and peace of mind, but is that little added blanket of security really worth that premium? I guess the answer varies from one person to another.

[bigbrian]

Originally Posted by Twitch Massacre

But from another perspective, you are correct it is much safer to run the Dinan from a warranty and peace of mind, but is that little added blanket of security really worth that premium? I guess the answer varies from one person to another.

I agree with Twitch on this one. Personally I don't feel that these piggy back boxes/tunes (when used responsibly) can cause that much damage.

Now if you are talking about something like ECU software it's a different story (for me at least). I would feel much more comfortable going with DINAN vs. an off the wall company that lacks in support. Not saying Burger is off the wall but I feel they are more of a grass roots type company (nothing wrong with that). I would want peace of mind knowing if my car didn't "boot up" when started I could pick up the phone and call Joe Blow at DINAN and at minimum have someone to yell at.

Brian

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by Twitch Massacre

Well, let's be honest here. The dealer would have no chance of figuring out that BMS caused the issue, if that were to happen, if you do remove the box and clear the fault codes.

Well, I'm not so confident about this statement! we have no idea about the software installed in ECU. In my opinion the ECU can save any event like error codes or maximum speed and even LC somewhere in on-board memory and for sure dealers have access to read those locations of memory. Is it a routine in their service program? I don't know maybe not but for sure if they want to investigate, they are able to do (IMO)

Originally Posted by bigbrian

I agree with Twitch on this one. Personally I don't feel that these piggy back boxes/tunes (when used responsibly) can cause that much damage.

I'm not confident in this one too. The s63tu may be able to generate more power/torque and this boxes for sure trigger the engine to produce more power by changing the boost, but are the other parts like DCT and Differential able to tolerate those power/torque? I want the answer to this! For example the transferred torque to differential is much higher than the torque at crank for the first 4 gears (it's multiplied by gear ratio) so more torque at crank means more torque on differential! even DCT has to be able to tolerate that torque when is generated by engine! The DCT part number is 7DCI700 manufactured by GETRAG and is rated to 700 NM or 516 lb-ft. Now is it safe for DCT to get more than rated torque from engine??? People says Germans are always underrated. I buy is but how much? 10%? 20%? 30? ... see that's the questions must be asked. I sent email to Dinan and asked this question... they never got back to me!!

[bigbrian]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

even DCT has to be able to tolerate that torque when is generated by engine! The DCT part number is 7DCI700 manufactured by GETRAG and is rated to 700 NM or 516 lb-ft. Now is it safe for DCT to get more than rated torque from engine??? People says Germans are always underrated. I buy is but how much? 10%? 20%? 30? ... see that's the questions must be asked. I sent email to Dinan and asked this question... they never got back to me!!

Good point! If these transmissions are rated to 516 lb-ft then I sure in the hell hope someone out there is working on an aftermarket kit for the transmission. Don't quote me on this but when I was on the phone with IND about a month ago they did mention they had something in the works for the transmission.

Brian

[EuroKar]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

Well, I'm not so confident about this statement! we have no idea about the software installed in ECU. In my opinion the ECU can save any event like error codes or maximum speed and even LC somewhere in on-board memory and for sure dealers have access to read those locations of memory. Is it a routine in their service program? I don't know maybe not but for sure if they want to investigate, they are able to do (IMO)


I'm not confident in this one too. The s63tu may be able to generate more power/torque and this boxes for sure trigger the engine to produce more power by changing the boost, but are the other parts like DCT and Differential able to tolerate those power/torque? I want the answer to this! For example the transferred torque to differential is much higher than the torque at crank for the first 4 gears (it's multiplied by gear ratio) so more torque at crank means more torque on differential! even DCT has to be able to tolerate that torque when is generated by engine! The DCT part number is 7DCI700 manufactured by GETRAG and is rated to 700 NM or 516 lb-ft. Now is it safe for DCT to get more than rated torque from engine??? People says Germans are always underrated. I buy is but how much? 10%? 20%? 30? ... see that's the questions must be asked. I sent email to Dinan and asked this question... they never got back to me!!

You are correct. Every time your start the engine data is being logged. It's a misconception that all you got to do is "remove the box" and the info is gone. That's not entirely true. Its all there for the diagnostic to review and see what was happening at the point of fault codes being stored in not only engine control modules but multiple vehicle control modules.
It is not in routine service to review this, that's time spent they are not getting paid for. But for review of a "warranty repair" for a turbo, transmission, engine...of course the real root cause will be found.
I agree with your second statment. BMS (again, I'm not hating) but, they are not sending any information to the engine control modules. The computers are adjusting to ONLY 2 sensors which are manipulated by the tuned box BMS provides, which again who makes the tune ? BMS or another paid party ? No one seems to know that answer as well.
Dinan's setup is connected directly to both computers, which in turn are adjusting the transmission's adaptation. These vehicles are that sensitive that all drivability modules are constant communication with each other and in turn will adapt to changes.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by bigbrian

Good point! If these transmissions are rated to 516 lb-ft then I sure in the hell hope someone out there is working on an aftermarket kit for the transmission. Don't quote me on this but when I was on the phone with IND about a month ago they did mention they had something in the works for the transmission.

Brian

lol... ok I don't quote on your statement, but I quote on IND or others tuner including Dinan! The 516 lb-ft rated is on transmission or let me say specifically on mechanical stuff inside the DCT that nobody can modify this part of transmission! Even dealers are not allowed to repair the transmission, they just replace it if there is any issue (referring to M4 guy who had faulty DCT after 500-600 mile on clock month ago and dealer replaced the DCT for him). The other unit of DCT is Transmission Control Unit (TCU) which is the electronic component to control the timing such as gear changing timing. This part can be reprogrammed to make it faster or remove the second speed limiter or some improvements. All they(tuners) can do (if they have access to this code) is to do some modifications, but again they cannot change the fact that the mechanical parts/material inside the transmission box are rated to specific torque/power. You guys are fantastic and I see your passion to spend your time and money to make a better toys... I'm on the same page you are, but the reason I'm no going to do anything about modification of my car is not because I cannot afford it! I believe everybody who can afford 100k+ car, can afford extra 4-5k. I have two reason to not do modification: First I believe this much power and torque is enough for me and second, I'm not gonna hurt my car unless I see the reasonable data to convince me that my car is able to tolerate extra power/torque and the chassis is capable to handle it!