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      03-20-2018, 08:18 AM   #1
Errowen
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Ceramic coating: Has anyone replaced one?

I just picked up a very low mileage 2016 640i GC in carbon black (now 3 BMW's in the garage). The finish has typical swirls from improper washing and a parking blemish on the front bumper. Having those things addressed. Paint otherwise is in excellent condition and I am thinking about trying a ceramic finish.

Looked all over the internet, lots of videos from self-appointed experts who got their chemistry degrees from comic books and whose sole real qualification is owning a video camera.

However, one very good video comparing ceramic coatings and waxing cited a downside that concerns me: ceramic finishes are a little harder than the best waxes but they will of course accumulate swirls and scratches. These cannot be polished out: the ceramic coating has to be sanded off and a new one applied.

Sanding is required because the bond between the ceramic coating, which is typically 3-5 microns thick, and the clear coat, which is typically 20-35 microns thick, is chemical. I am having a hard time imagining that it is possible to remove a few microns of ceramic coating with a hand-held rotary sander while leaving the unbonded part of the clear coat intact behind.

My questions: Has anyone had the sanding and renewal done? Was there any clear coat left after the sanding? How many times could this be done before the clear coat is gone?
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      03-22-2018, 05:20 AM   #2
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I haven't had sanding done yet but I did have to wet sand a light scratch out on my ceramic coat. I used the Ammo NYC videos online to practice this on a test panel first then went for it on my car using my DA polisher.

Ceramic coats are better at withstanding swirling but not immune. Fortunately there are a few other products to combat this. Firstly, there is a special ceramic wax and sealant made by Angel Wax. This will delay the need for wet sanding and in some cases prevent it all together. Secondly, the Sio2 top up product that one is to use to extend the life of the ceramic coat can also be used to mask swirls but not remove them.

If done properly very little clear coat is removed as the goal is to remove the ceramic coat which is less than a few microns. It is just that an abrasive method is required to mow it down. A proper detailing outfit will be able to provide and demonstrate before and after paint readings.

There are ceramic coats lasting from 3-8 years and with a 6 monthly top up of Sio2 even some 3 year products could reach 5 years.

With a microfibre cutting pad and an abrasive polish the worry is not removing the ceramic coat but avoiding removal of the clear coat. It is so easy to burn and cut paint. An expert will know how far to go or not to go.

For the consumer. Most ceramic coats can survive a light polish. So after 3-4 compounding sessions the product would be gone. The longer route without wet sanding. At that point the same product could be reapplied or a wax instead.
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      03-22-2018, 10:24 AM   #3
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i have been doing paint correction for many years. i would do a full paint correction on this car buff then polish then either a new coating or sealant that way you know you are protected.
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      03-22-2018, 11:11 AM   #4
gunner12
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wetsanding is the last thing you want to do. least aggresive first. the paint on these cars is hard so maybe rotary followed up with a da polisher . i had a couple of scratches on tmy car when i bought it had to use a rotary. da wouldnt touch it and i have the new grots garage boss system. what ever you do make sure that where you take it knows what they are doing. could be a very costly mistake if you go through the clear
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      03-22-2018, 12:42 PM   #5
jackliu0527
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Ceramic coating are not permanent, most last no more than 2 years with proper maintenance. If you are accumulating lots of swirls in 2 years, you are doing something wrong. One way to find out if u have bare paint or coating spray water over it, see if it beads.

To me coating are there for environmental protection and extra gloss, for physical protection go with paint protection film, and you can apply the ceramic coating over the film
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      03-23-2018, 04:10 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 37psi View Post
I haven't had sanding done yet but I did have to wet sand a light scratch out on my ceramic coat. I used the Ammo NYC videos online to practice this on a test panel first then went for it on my car using my DA polisher.

Ceramic coats are better at withstanding swirling but not immune. Fortunately there are a few other products to combat this. Firstly, there is a special ceramic wax and sealant made by Angel Wax. This will delay the need for wet sanding and in some cases prevent it all together. Secondly, the Sio2 top up product that one is to use to extend the life of the ceramic coat can also be used to mask swirls but not remove them.

If done properly very little clear coat is removed as the goal is to remove the ceramic coat which is less than a few microns. It is just that an abrasive method is required to mow it down. A proper detailing outfit will be able to provide and demonstrate before and after paint readings.

There are ceramic coats lasting from 3-8 years and with a 6 monthly top up of Sio2 even some 3 year products could reach 5 years.

With a microfibre cutting pad and an abrasive polish the worry is not removing the ceramic coat but avoiding removal of the clear coat. It is so easy to burn and cut paint. An expert will know how far to go or not to go.

For the consumer. Most ceramic coats can survive a light polish. So after 3-4 compounding sessions the product would be gone. The longer route without wet sanding. At that point the same product could be reapplied or a wax instead.
Extremely helpful info - thanks.
I'm in -- looking at Always Dry and IGL Kenzo.
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