Plugs at 50K?

[Frupal]

I was in the neighborhood of my local dealer yesterday and I stopped by to inquire how much it would cost to have them change out my brake fluid (due January 2021). They said $240 for the brake fluid swap, $160 for an oil change and $680(!) to replace the plugs. They didn’t mention the coils, but at that price, I assume they are to be replaced as well. But perhaps not.

I asked why and they said that plug replacement is triggered by BMW at the 6th oil change. My car is a 2016 640 GC at about 46k miles and will probably be around 47k in January. She runs flawlessly.

Is 50k a good time to change out the plugs? I had read 100k, but I’m not so sure about that! I’ve found OEM plug/coil kits for $250 or less and am confident that I can change them myself.

As far as the brake fluid thing, I have an Indy mechanic who quoted me $100 for the fluid change and another $100 for the oil/filter change.

[thebmw]

Brake fluid flush is usually listed at $200 but there are always deals as low as $125. Oil change for your car shouldn't be more than $100. For the V8, $175 is the max but there are deals at $125 all the time. Plugs should be $500 max for the V8. The six cylinder should be cheaper especially given the fact that no one pays retail.

Sounds like your dealership is incredibly high-priced. You should go to the independent. Finally, I would not replace plugs at 46k miles. Replace them as needed but usually they don't start giving out until 75k miles.

[Opie55]

That price will not include coils. Replacing plugs on your engine is really quite easy - as easy as any modern engine probably. The hardest part by far is getting the coils to pop off the plugs because they tend to get stuck from years of heat, but it's not that hard. If I was trying to be fast I could swap your plugs in 30 minutes or less. Your dealer is charging an outrageous price for each plug, then charging a book rate for labor that is way more than the job actually takes. But that is how dealers make money - they don't make much selling cars.

I just went back and added it up - they want $1,080 for three of the simplest jobs on your car. Your plugs at the auto parts store are about $10 each ($60 total), LL-01 oil is about $30 for five quarts, so your car needs about $50 in oil and let's say $13 for a filter - ($63 total) and you need no more than $10 in brake fluid. So DIY that $1,080 becomes $133, for a savings of $947. I DIY, although the savings is not my prime motivator, but it is nice sometimes to realize the extent of the savings over time.

[Opie55]

And yes, 50k is good time to change plugs. 100k is way too much.

[Frupal]

Originally Posted by Opie55

And yes, 50k is good time to change plugs. 100k is way too much.

As always, I appreciate your well thought and well said response. Thanks for that!

I changed the plugs and coils on a 2005 330ci that I had owned since new and some of the coils were indeed difficult to extract, but not undoable. So I’ll use the independent for the fluid changes and do the plugs and coils myself. I actually enjoy doing it.

That being said I have found OEM Ignition Service Kits (Plugs and coils) online for around $400.00, and other kits with Delphi coils and NGK (sometimes Bosch) plugs for around $200. Would it behoove me to spring for the OEM? I think that Bosch supplies BMW.

[thebmw]

I would recommend sticking with OEM plugs. You're not looking to race car and get some different spec plug. Also, plugs cost about 50 bucks total. So everything else is labor. Keep that in mind when paying someone to do it. I still think that changing plugs at 50k miles is not always necessary. It doesn't hurt, just not necessary.

[Opie55]

I also recommend sticking with OEM plugs, but that does not mean BMW-branded plugs. Just buy the plugs that are whatever the BMW branded plugs are. They will either be NGK or Bosch. As for coils, I'm not so sure I will change those when I do my plugs on my V8. I'm not convinced they are so unreliable that it is worth the expense as a preventative measure.

[thebmw]

So while I recommend changing plugs when they need to, which is usually around 75k miles, I also think that changing the coils at the same time is worth it. The incremental cost is minimal because you only have to pay for the coils. When I changed both, they did not charge me extra labor because it doesn't take much more work to change everything versus just the plugs. So while I recommend changing them when they actually need them, I also recommend changing the whole entire unit. There's no point in changing the plugs then a short time later changing coils at literally the same cost.

[Opie55]

Originally Posted by Frupal

As always, I appreciate your well thought and well said response. Thanks for that!

I changed the plugs and coils on a 2005 330ci that I had owned since new and some of the coils were indeed difficult to extract, but not undoable. So I’ll use the independent for the fluid changes and do the plugs and coils myself. I actually enjoy doing it.

That being said I have found OEM Ignition Service Kits (Plugs and coils) online for around $400.00, and other kits with Delphi coils and NGK (sometimes Bosch) plugs for around $200. Would it behoove me to spring for the OEM? I think that Bosch supplies BMW.

The only special tool you need to do the plugs is a thin-walled socket to fit over the plugs. A regular socket will not fit, but you can get the thin-walled one at most auto parts stores. And you need at least one good extension because the plugs are way down in there. Optional, but I also recommend you buy a little tube of dielectric grease at the auto parts store and smear a bit on the inside of the coil boots before reinstalling. They will come off much easier if you ever need to remove the coils again.

[thebmw]

BTW, if you are changing the plugs yourself then yes, it will cost you $50 and no need to change the coils at the same time. If you're having someone else do it, I would replace everything and get a flat labor fee. The parts are actually the cheapest component of the repair job.

[Kay386]

Originally Posted by Frupal

As always, I appreciate your well thought and well said response. Thanks for that!

I changed the plugs and coils on a 2005 330ci that I had owned since new and some of the coils were indeed difficult to extract, but not undoable. So IÂ’ll use the independent for the fluid changes and do the plugs and coils myself. I actually enjoy doing it.

That being said I have found OEM Ignition Service Kits (Plugs and coils) online for around $400.00, and other kits with Delphi coils and NGK (sometimes Bosch) plugs for around $200. Would it behoove me to spring for the OEM? I think that Bosch supplies BMW.

Hey man I've got to let you know what Im currently going through, so maybe it will save you some time and money. I would recommend OE BMW ignition coils and plugs. I've got a 650 GC and figured I would do the coils and plugs myself. Note....I've also got years of experience working on previous BMWs as well...so if you've done it on E46 3 series, you can do it on your F06. BUT I would recommend getting some additional tools listed in the repair manuals and ECS (i.e. swivel spark plug socket).

So I did some research on ignition coils and decided to go with Delphi (PN 12138616153)....thinking that they were better. The car would run perfectly fine EXCEPT under medium/hard acceleration where it has a slight shutter. I ended up going to the dealership to help diagnose the issue. The shop foreman rode with me and explained why he really believes the issue is with ignition or spark. This is after they ruled out transfer case and performed a smoke test on vacuum lines. I used OE BMW spark plugs....so im thinking I either got 1-2 bad ignition coils OR the performance of Delphi ignition coils is quite "up-to-snuff" with the OE BMW ignition coils (12138647689). The latter is what the BMW foreman believes is the issue.

All that being said...I decided to cough up the dough to buy the OE BMW ignition coils and Im gonna swap them today. We'll see if it fixes the issue. Ill end up using the Delphi ignition coils in my E46....but i'll need to identify at least 6 of the 8 that are good.

[Frupal]

Originally Posted by Kay386

Hey man I've got to let you know what Im currently going through, so maybe it will save you some time and money. I would recommend OE BMW ignition coils and plugs. I've got a 650 GC and figured I would do the coils and plugs myself. Note....I've also got years of experience working on previous BMWs as well...so if you've done it on E46 3 series, you can do it on your F06. BUT I would recommend getting some additional tools listed in the repair manuals and ECS (i.e. swivel spark plug socket).

So I did some research on ignition coils and decided to go with Delphi (PN 12138616153)....thinking that they were better. The car would run perfectly fine EXCEPT under medium/hard acceleration where it has a slight shutter. I ended up going to the dealership to help diagnose the issue. The shop foreman rode with me and explained why he really believes the issue is with ignition or spark. This is after they ruled out transfer case and performed a smoke test on vacuum lines. I used OE BMW spark plugs....so im thinking I either got 1-2 bad ignition coils OR the performance of Delphi ignition coils is quite "up-to-snuff" with the OE BMW ignition coils (12138647689). The latter is what the BMW foreman believes is the issue.

All that being said...I decided to cough up the dough to buy the OE BMW ignition coils and Im gonna swap them today. We'll see if it fixes the issue. Ill end up using the Delphi ignition coils in my E46....but i'll need to identify at least 6 of the 8 that are good.

Please keep me posted!

[rorz12]

Originally Posted by Kay386

Hey man I've got to let you know what Im currently going through, so maybe it will save you some time and money. I would recommend OE BMW ignition coils and plugs. I've got a 650 GC and figured I would do the coils and plugs myself. Note....I've also got years of experience working on previous BMWs as well...so if you've done it on E46 3 series, you can do it on your F06. BUT I would recommend getting some additional tools listed in the repair manuals and ECS (i.e. swivel spark plug socket).

So I did some research on ignition coils and decided to go with Delphi (PN 12138616153)....thinking that they were better. The car would run perfectly fine EXCEPT under medium/hard acceleration where it has a slight shutter. I ended up going to the dealership to help diagnose the issue. The shop foreman rode with me and explained why he really believes the issue is with ignition or spark. This is after they ruled out transfer case and performed a smoke test on vacuum lines. I used OE BMW spark plugs....so im thinking I either got 1-2 bad ignition coils OR the performance of Delphi ignition coils is quite "up-to-snuff" with the OE BMW ignition coils (12138647689). The latter is what the BMW foreman believes is the issue.

All that being said...I decided to cough up the dough to buy the OE BMW ignition coils and Im gonna swap them today. We'll see if it fixes the issue. Ill end up using the Delphi ignition coils in my E46....but i'll need to identify at least 6 of the 8 that are good.

Did you end up figuring out the exact problem? I have the same shudder under medium/hard acceleration in the low RPMs. 13' 650i too. What spark plugs did you use at the time and did you check the gaps?