Which M series are collectors?

[Yeineken]

1M would be a safe bet. E92 Limerock Edition in the U.S. as well.

[ilikebmxbikes]

add z4mc and s54 z3mc

[RIDERDIE]

Unfortunately there are just too many of most M's made.

At the same time fortunately there are enough made so a larger number of people can enjoy / afford them.

I remember + or - 10 years ago I had a note on the windshield of my 99 e36 m from a guy offering cash on top of his e30 m. I remember thinking, not a chance.

Now the e30 is 20k plus vs the e36 where probably 5 out there with low mileage could fetch in the 20's.

Back to production numbers, depending on the area you live in if you see one a week or a month it probably is never going to be a collectable.

M1
E30 m3
e34 m5
I would think the original z3 m coupe some day
e36 ltw
e46 csl
Z8 doesn't count

I would like to think the standard euro e36 m3 will become a collectable. I enjoyed the hell out of 8 years with my 230 hp, can't imagine that car with the extra hp and trq.

[gearboxtrouble]

Count me extremely surprised that nobody bothered to mention the e60 M5. BMW will never again stick a motorsports derived 500 hp NA V10 that revs to 8000 rpm in a M car. The s85 is a true exotic engine, more suitable for a out and out supercar. It also helps that the e60 bodystyle has aged extremely well, especially when compared to its fat and bloated successor. The only drawback is the SMG gearbox most of them come with. It doesn't matter. This engine would have made a minivan collectible.


My list of collectible M cars
1. M1 - no explanation needed. Already collectible.
2. e30 M3 - see above.
3. e46 M3 CSL - yes the SMG was horrible but its rarity and iconic status has made this a collectors item already.
4. e60 M5 - See long explanation above. Especially with the 6MT.
5. e39 M5 - The most definitive sports sedan of all time.

There are some others but most of them are maybe good enough to come close to being collectible but they're either not rare enough (e46) or are too obscure (e92 M3 GTS) to be truly collectible.

[IEDEI]

the following cars are already collectible:

(in no order)

1M
Z8
E30 M3
E28 M5
M1
2002 Turbo
E46 M3 CSL

the only other 'modern' BMWs that will be collectible IMO are:
Z3M Coupe
Z4M Coupe

that's pretty much it....the rest are far too mass produced OR just not desirable enough, IMO.

[David9962000]

E30 ///M3 Cab. Euro only model.

http://bmwe30m3cabrio.com

[Devilzmantis]

Originally Posted by David9962000

E30 ///M3 Cab. Euro only model.

http://bmwe30m3cabrio.com

Why do the Euros get all the nice cars!! The E36 Euro had the upgraded 300+ hp.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by gearboxtrouble

Count me extremely surprised that nobody bothered to mention the e60 M5. BMW will never again stick a motorsports derived 500 hp NA V10 that revs to 8000 rpm in a M car. The s85 is a true exotic engine, more suitable for a out and out supercar. It also helps that the e60 bodystyle has aged extremely well, especially when compared to its fat and bloated successor. The only drawback is the SMG gearbox most of them come with. It doesn't matter. This engine would have made a minivan collectible.


My list of collectible M cars
1. M1 - no explanation needed. Already collectible.
2. e30 M3 - see above.
3. e46 M3 CSL - yes the SMG was horrible but its rarity and iconic status has made this a collectors item already.
4. e60 M5 - See long explanation above. Especially with the 6MT.
5. e39 M5 - The most definitive sports sedan of all time.

There are some others but most of them are maybe good enough to come close to being collectible but they're either not rare enough (e46) or are too obscure (e92 M3 GTS) to be truly collectible.

I agree with your surprise that the S85 equipped cars are not included on the previous list. At the F10 M5 launch, an ///M Brand Manager as well as an engineer shared the following: 'Keep your S85 and S65 equipped cars. Due to environmental regulations it is highly unlikely that any company will make engines such as these for the foreseeable future.'

The S85 is a masterpiece. I can daily drive the car as well as practically destroy all but a few cars on the road. The nature of the power band is exactly what I like in a sports car. I will never tire of keeping it between 6000 rpm and the redline...it is an experience like no other.

Cheers-mk

[avantegardestyle]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

I agree with your surprise that the S85 equipped cars are not included on the previous list. At the F10 M5 launch, an ///M Brand Manager as well as an engineer shared the following: 'Keep your S85 and S65 equipped cars. Due to environmental regulations it is highly unlikely that any company will make engines such as these for the foreseeable future.'

The S85 is a masterpiece. I can daily drive the car as well as practically destroy all but a few cars on the road. The nature of the power band is exactly what I like in a sports car. I will never tire of keeping it between 6000 rpm and the redline...it is an experience like no other.

Cheers-mk

I was suprised by its omission too..........
thats the next car on my to do list.......

[RABAUKE]

Z4MC- my view is that it was/is different than the more sedan variants, plus the limited production run, it seems that low milage examples are holding value. What do I know, I'm pretty new to this but that was my thought process in part for buying mine. That and the fact that I think its a sweet looking car and a blast to drive.

[gearboxtrouble]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

I agree with your surprise that the S85 equipped cars are not included on the previous list. At the F10 M5 launch, an ///M Brand Manager as well as an engineer shared the following: 'Keep your S85 and S65 equipped cars. Due to environmental regulations it is highly unlikely that any company will make engines such as these for the foreseeable future.'

The S85 is a masterpiece. I can daily drive the car as well as practically destroy all but a few cars on the road. The nature of the power band is exactly what I like in a sports car. I will never tire of keeping it between 6000 rpm and the redline...it is an experience like no other.

Cheers-mk

Yeah, I used to own a s65 equipped e92 M3. While the complete package is more polished than the s85 + SMG combo I don't think the s65 will be nearly as collectible. There were just too many e9x M3s built. I've driven a e60 M5 several times and it continues to remain an experience on par with some of the most exotic cars I've driven (F430, SLS AMG, R8 V10). I never liked the looks of the V10 M6 so nowadays I'm seriously on the lookout for a well maintained manual e60 M5 as a weekend/collector car.

[New2Roundel]

Why do people keep saying the following:

Originally Posted by Yeineken

1M would be a safe bet. E92 Limerock Edition in the U.S. as well.

Originally Posted by RIDERDIE

Unfortunately there are just too many of most M's made.

The 1M would be a collectible if there was no M2. I think there are going to be a small core of people who really dig the 1M and will keep the prices at a certain level, but with every successor to that car that gets produced, there will be fewer and fewer members of that core. The 1M was an interesting model when it came out, but the M3 is the model that put the entire lineup on the map. The M3 is the prototypical M car among the average car enthusiast.

Also the debate about producing too many M to be collectible isn't accurate in and of itself either. There is a distinct difference between collectible and valuable. From a historical perspective, both regular, run of the mill vintage mustangs and VW Beetles can easily be considered collectible. Most aren't worth that much. I think M3s will certainly be collectible in the future, but I'm not sure they will be super valuable. It's just too hard to predict what the market will find interesting in 20 years.

As a current BMW M owner, but not a BMW or M fanatic, it's hard in some respects to see any BMW as having a draw beyond the "BMW nerds". I've always loved the z3 and z4 M coupe and for me, that's the only BMW that I could see paying more for in the future. The 1M isn't even on my radar. My money is on the M2 being a similar (in size/dimensions) but a vastly superior performance car. And yet, at the same time, I'd rather have an M3/M4 as I think they're nicer cars and better looking.

And that's the other thing--the 1M and M2 are no where near as attractive looking at the M3 (M4) that was sold along side of the respective smaller M cars.

[Yeineken]

Originally Posted by New2Roundel

Why do people keep saying the following:

The 1M would be a collectible if there was no M2. I think there are going to be a small core of people who really dig the 1M and will keep the prices at a certain level, but with every successor to that car that gets produced, there will be fewer and fewer members of that core. The 1M was an interesting model when it came out, but the M3 is the model that put the entire lineup on the map. The M3 is the prototypical M car among the average car enthusiast.

Also the debate about producing too many M to be collectible isn't accurate in and of itself either. There is a distinct difference between collectible and valuable. From a historical perspective, both regular, run of the mill vintage mustangs and VW Beetles can easily be considered collectible. Most aren't worth that much. I think M3s will certainly be collectible in the future, but I'm not sure they will be super valuable. It's just too hard to predict what the market will find interesting in 20 years.

As a current BMW M owner, but not a BMW or M fanatic, it's hard in some respects to see any BMW as having a draw beyond the "BMW nerds". I've always loved the z3 and z4 M coupe and for me, that's the only BMW that I could see paying more for in the future. The 1M isn't even on my radar. My money is on the M2 being a similar (in size/dimensions) but a vastly superior performance car. And yet, at the same time, I'd rather have an M3/M4 as I think they're nicer cars and better looking.

And that's the other thing--the 1M and M2 are no where near as attractive looking at the M3 (M4) that was sold along side of the respective smaller M cars.

To the hardcore enthusiast of BMW Motosports the 1M is a great car. Yes it doesn't appeal to most. But it's a modern BMW with a old school feel and attitude...

Plus it was developed before fake engine sound, electric steering, suspension settings for the nannies and all the other crap M's come with these days.

Why do we need 10-15 different settings between Eco, comfort, and sport in an M?

It came with a manual, upgraded suspension, steering, wide track, upgraded drivetrain and one button and that was the M button for over boost. What more can you want from a pure M car?

To me and the people who are willing to pay the price for a 1M get it. Some don't. It's the perfect recipe.

Simple. Small. Fast.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by Devilzmantis

OK.. gonna give this a try. This is what I think will be collectors or are collectors in order.

1. M1 (not the 1M)
2. 1st M3
3. 1st M6
4. 1st M5
5. M2 to be - first of its kind?
6. E92 V8 - just because it's the only V8 in the M3 editions?
7. 1M - rarity but not much demand on this one.. am i wrong?
8. E46 - Just a feeling... but its value isn't high right now.. been hovering around 18-25k. blah.
9. everything else.
....

Am I missing anything? What do you guys think?

For now, I'd switch 1M with the M2, those things are holding their value quite well provided the mileage is low and the car is in great condition.

[New2Roundel]

Originally Posted by Yeineken

To the hardcore enthusiast of BMW Motosports the 1M is a great car. Yes it doesn't appeal to most. But it's a modern BMW with a old school feel and attitude...

This isn't unique to the 1M though---the M2 will be working off the same recipe, making the 1M's status as some type of pricey collectible somewhat questionable, no?

Plus it was developed before fake engine sound, electric steering, suspension settings for the nannies and all the other crap M's come with these days.

Why do we need 10-15 different settings between Eco, comfort, and sport in an M?

It came with a manual, upgraded suspension, steering, wide track, upgraded drivetrain and one button and that was the M button for over boost. What more can you want from a pure M car?

To be honest, from a purity standpoint, I'd take a Z4 M coupe all day long over an 1M. That is a pure driving experience. Heck, even a regular z4 3.0si coupe is pretty fun to drive.

I do fully agree with your comment about the seemingly limitless amount of tweaking that are available in some M cars. I remember that older top gear episode where clarkson was in an e60 M5 and he dramatized the dizzying array of settings in that car. At the same time, I do appreciate some level of adjustability in the car. I like having control over stability/traction control--not just on and off, but a middle setting as well. I like having different damper settings, as your typical passenger doesn't generally appreciate a rock hard ride. I do think that the "power"button in my M3 is pretty silly. It certainly makes a difference with how the car responds, but at the same time, it's not like power mode makes the car some type of bucking bronco. "Power" mode should be the default setting. With regard to engines, the S65 in the M3 is far more special and unique than the engine in the 1M. Heck, I think it's more interesting and special than what's in the F3x M series.

To me and the people who are willing to pay the price for a 1M get it. Some don't. It's the perfect recipe.

Oh I get it all right, but the M coupe does it better IMO.

[Yeineken]

Originally Posted by New2Roundel

This isn't unique to the 1M though---the M2 will be working off the same recipe, making the 1M's status as some type of pricey collectible somewhat questionable, no?

Im not 100% sold on the M2 yet. Some interior leaks show it may just be a smaller m4 but with a n55. Granted this is exactly what the 1M was with the E9X M3. But it was more pure in my opinion than the M2 will ever be. I also can't see BMW limiting the production as bad as they did with the 1M on the M2. So I would expected more than 2,000+ M2's in the U.S. compared to the 7XX 1M's.

With regard to engines, the S65 in the M3 is far more special and unique than the engine in the 1M. Heck, I think it's more interesting and special than what's in the F3x M series.

COMPLETLY AGREE. A few people over on the 1addicts side are starting to put s65's in 1M's and 1M clone builds. Legendary engine.

[Craigy]

All of them are "collectable." Doesn't mean they are going to rapidly appreciate. M1 is the only real investment-grade model, with the possible addition of the intentionally very limited sub-models like the M3 GTR, M3-R, etc. Z8 is not an M car (nor is a 507, etc.).

Even the E30 M3 IMO is over inflated. It's a very cool car, and has a lot of heritage and significance to any M guy, but beyond that I don't really get it. They're not really great to drive, and there's a ton of them. Plain and simple.

The Z3M Coupe and 1M also are similarly inflated, but for different reasons. It's not as if BMW said "we're going to make a limited batch of these." They simply didn't make a lot since there was so little demand. Even today, they have limited appeal.

Any year M3, in nice shape and well optioned, will always carry value, just like a cherry '69 Camaro SS does. The same goes for all of the M-cars. But there's thousands and thousands of them out there, and of the small-production cars, a very small audience.

[New2Roundel]

Originally Posted by Craigy

1M is the only real investment-grade model

This is a nonsensical statement. The m2 will assure that the 1M is nothing terribly special. The M coupes are far more special than the 1M.

Heck, I bet an Alpina 7-series will be worth more than a 1M in 20 years.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by Yeineken

To the hardcore enthusiast of BMW Motosports the 1M is a great car. Yes it doesn't appeal to most. But it's a modern BMW with a old school feel and attitude...

Plus it was developed before fake engine sound, electric steering, suspension settings for the nannies and all the other crap M's come with these days.

Why do we need 10-15 different settings between Eco, comfort, and sport in an M?

It came with a manual, upgraded suspension, steering, wide track, upgraded drivetrain and one button and that was the M button for over boost. What more can you want from a pure M car?

To me and the people who are willing to pay the price for a 1M get it. Some don't. It's the perfect recipe.

Simple. Small. Fast.

i couldn't say it any better myself.

the 1M, like the 2002 Turbo in 1974 (the car it's closest in spirit to) was a weird, wonderful experiment by BMW in a time when companies like BMW are all about profits, SUVs, and marketability. The 1M takes the company back to the glory days......fun, small, energetic small coupes....something BMW totally forgot about after the E36 M3.

For me, the 1M is the natural successor to the 2002 Turbo.....and its spirit captures what early BMW sports cars were all about. It won't appeal to everyone....but to those it appeals to we will jump through hoops to get one (like i did to get mine a year ago).....i could have afforded to buy any M3 i wanted, but honestly none of them interested me even remotely as much as the 1M did.

I also think the E82 1-series was the LAST good BMW line that really carried the spirit of old school BMWs. Wheather it's the 128 or 135....those cars will be looked back at fondly for years to come. The current 2-series doesn't cut it as it's too soft and electronic....and the 3-series is way too big now....

the M2 will be like the E36 M3 was to the E30 M3. It will be a technically better car, but will it capture the spirit of the 1M? Not sure about that....we are sure, however, that it will be easier to get and a lot more mainstream.....and produced in much higher numbers. It also has more accessible, generic looks which will appeal to a wider audience than the frankly raw and mad looking 1M.

[Kiwi]

The M1 and M Z3 are the only old M's which still look good. They are both track cars.

[Craigy]

Originally Posted by New2Roundel

This is a nonsensical statement. The m2 will assure that the 1M is nothing terribly special. The M coupes are far more special than the 1M.

Heck, I bet an Alpina 7-series will be worth more than a 1M in 20 years.

Hahahaa yes it is!

Meant to type "M1"

[Longboarder]

None.