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      04-18-2015, 01:21 PM   #1
BMW Owner Florida
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My reworked F12 (Sharing here as well)

Worked on this for awhile. Has:

M5 OEM Wheels with Michelin Pilot Sport
Dinan Phase III
Dinan Suspension Tune with Camber and rear suspension Parts
Dinan/Brembo Front Brakes
M6 Exhaust. Yes it fits and sounds awesome with Dinan Phase III
Lowered with H&R Springs. Great ride. With Dinan suspension tune, I can adjust to a comfort ride or almost race Mode suspension.
M Sport rear and Front Bumpers with Vorsteiner spoiler and size trim and rear diffuser
3D Design Front Spoiler (Awesome Part)
Carbon fiber grills
Carbon fiber mirror caps
Carbon fiber shifter
Stainless pedals and foot rest
The car came with Heated and cooled seats, lane change front window projection, auto park, premium sound.

Eric and Supreme Power was much help in making sure that I had the correct parts. Bought all the Vorsteiner and 3D stuff from him.

This is the my favorite car that I have ever had. Great engineering. Fantastic to drive!
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      04-18-2015, 02:37 PM   #2
M6-Coupe
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Very nice car and you did a great job, but something I can't understand is why people like you get 650i and spend 20-30k easily to make their car looks and performs like M6 while it's not an M6 yet? I mean for sure you have spent 20-30k for exhaust, wheels, brakes, suspension, Dinan,... and still you don't have enough performance to compete with M6... with Dinan stage 3 still you have 100HP less than actual power of M6...isn't the different between the price point of M6 Convertible and 650i Convertible 25k? not to mention that M6 has all factory installed kit...
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      04-18-2015, 02:57 PM   #3
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You have a point but some folks like to make their cars individual rather than just be one of the crowd. Financially it makes no sense (as I know from old) but does spending so much money on a car make sense as a cheap ford would still get you from A to B....?
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      04-18-2015, 03:27 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S800vxr View Post
You have a point but some folks like to make their cars individual rather than just be one of the crowd. Financially it makes no sense (as I know from old) but does spending so much money on a car make sense as a cheap ford would still get you from A to B....?
We are not talking about a car to get us from A to B... My point is not about those people. My point is about who are looking for performance (as this guy have spent lots of money for performance) while the performance can be earned easily and much better the other way. I used to have two F13 650i (one with N63 and another with N63tu and M sport package) and now F13 M6... performance wise, they are day and night... not even close. I mean even spending 30k on 650i, M6 is a different animal. Beside the look, there are many things such as Engine, DCT, LSD, Suspension,... are completely different...you can make 650i looks like M6 by replacing the exhaust, rims, bumpers, grills, brakes (and not CF roof), but incase of performance, as far as handling, power, torque, throttle responsiveness, gear shifting, steering and a lot more, NOWAY 650i can compete with M6...
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      04-18-2015, 04:08 PM   #5
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I drove a 650i and I found that the throttle response was terrible. The one I drove was an N63tu with 330kw and I honestly didn't realise you could make a car feel that slow with that much power!

In saying that, now that I've driven an M6 as well, the DCT gearbox and ride isn't as refined as the 650i so I guess it can depend on what you're looking for too. A 650i with a flash tune could be fast but still very comfortable
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      04-18-2015, 04:44 PM   #6
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People who can afford to buy the latest top of the range car and just drive it for the warrentee period with perhaps just a remap are one breed, the other is someone who likes to mod their car and make its theirs... Both have pro's and cons.
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      04-18-2015, 04:45 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brad850csi View Post
I drove a 650i and I found that the throttle response was terrible. The one I drove was an N63tu with 330kw and I honestly didn't realise you could make a car feel that slow with that much power!

In saying that, now that I've driven an M6 as well, the DCT gearbox and ride isn't as refined as the 650i so I guess it can depend on what you're looking for too. A 650i with a flash tune could be fast but still very comfortable

Auckland... Cool. Was brought up there in Glenfield on the north shore. As for throttle response, I agree it's dire off the line! Hopefully a remap will resolve that, and some non run flats which are diabolical!
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      04-18-2015, 05:03 PM   #8
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F12 650 vs M6...

The only thing on this car that would have come on an M6 is the exhaust. I paid $750 for the exhaust and it had 1500 miles on it. All of the Vorsteiner and other carbon fiber stuff would have to added to an M6 as well and so would the Brembo brakes.

I owned a 2007 650 and a 2009 M6. I liked the 650 better. A little better ride. The car has approximately 510 hp, according to Dinan. It's fast enough.

The M6 is an awesome car. Incredible engineering and I prefer an M6 because of the upgrades. If I had had done to a 2012-2013 loaded M6 what I did to this car, I would have $130k in the car. I paid $53K for the car (36,000 miles) and put about $20 K into it. The sticker price on this car was $104,000.

I have a fantastic car for $72,000 and it's exactly like I want it. I thought about what you are saying when I started my project. I came in about $45,000 to $55,000 less with what I would have with a loaded M6. The 650 Convertible is a great car, not an M6, but it carries itself pretty good.

Last edited by BMW Owner Florida; 04-18-2015 at 07:55 PM..
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      04-18-2015, 07:54 PM   #9
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Nice. I like it.
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      04-18-2015, 08:47 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brad850csi View Post
I drove a 650i and I found that the throttle response was terrible. The one I drove was an N63tu with 330kw and I honestly didn't realise you could make a car feel that slow with that much power!

In saying that, now that I've driven an M6 as well, the DCT gearbox and ride isn't as refined as the 650i so I guess it can depend on what you're looking for too. A 650i with a flash tune could be fast but still very comfortable
Today C5driver and I attended in McLaren event in Newport beach. They introduced 570s including all of the performance capability and features this car is offering. Then I asked the guy to let me test drive the car. They didn't have the car for test drive (the one they introduced was pre-production) but he offered me test driving a 12C. Well it was blessing to test drive that super car so I took the opportunity. After 1-2 minutes driving the guy trusted me and let me push the car to the limit in sport mode and track mode ... It's a fantastic fast car and I loved it. great handling and great driving experience. The driver's seat position and steering wheel style give you lots of confidence to rape the car and as he said I drove the car the way it's meant to be driven BUT guys trust me in power delivery, torque and DCT department, M6 is a winner PERIOD. I know it's hard to believe but please go ahead and test drive both cars and push them to the limit then you will get what I am talking about.
I wish the next generation of M6 will be 5-6" in shorter length and 400-500 lb lighter... and NO AWD PLEASE
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Gone: 2013 F13 Alpine White 650i -ZF8
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      04-19-2015, 12:43 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S800vxr View Post
Auckland... Cool. Was brought up there in Glenfield on the north shore. As for throttle response, I agree it's dire off the line! Hopefully a remap will resolve that, and some non run flats which are diabolical!
We are now way off topic, but then the start of the topic wasn't about an M6 anyway so I guess it's ok

I'm down south on a peninsula and leave the C63 parked on the street The 850CSi is my baby though!
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      04-19-2015, 12:49 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M6-Coupe View Post
Today C5driver and I attended in McLaren event in Newport beach. They introduced 570s including all of the performance capability and features this car is offering. Then I asked the guy to let me test drive the car. They didn't have the car for test drive (the one they introduced was pre-production) but he offered me test driving a 12C. Well it was blessing to test drive that super car so I took the opportunity. After 1-2 minutes driving the guy trusted me and let me push the car to the limit in sport mode and track mode ... It's a fantastic fast car and I loved it. great handling and great driving experience. The driver's seat position and steering wheel style give you lots of confidence to rape the car and as he said I drove the car the way it's meant to be driven BUT guys trust me in power delivery, torque and DCT department, M6 is a winner PERIOD. I know it's hard to believe but please go ahead and test drive both cars and push them to the limit then you will get what I am talking about.
I wish the next generation of M6 will be 5-6" in shorter length and 400-500 lb lighter... and NO AWD PLEASE


Thats only a 3.8L V8, I would imagine that it really needs the 8500rpm redline to have it make the power it does. It also doesn't have the fancy twin scroll cross bank technology of the S63Tu.


I had been thinking for a while that the next 6 series could change a bit. A few people think that the 6 series is the top of the range from BMW as far as a drivers car goes. The new 7 will of course be a bit lighter and will 'fix' that to some degree, but the various concepts of a massive sedan from BMW makes me wonder if there might be an 8 series again with 4 doors that is more 7 series based but with sporty intentions and is there to compete with the Bentley Flying Spur and similar. That could let the 6 series coupe be a bit smaller and more radical.

All current high end BMW's have about 52% weight on the front which isn't ideal with the power they are putting out. If they had free range with the next M6 I wonder if a transaxle could change that around to have more weight on the rear and be close in weight distribution to the 612 Scaglietti, while having much more power.
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      04-19-2015, 01:50 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brad850csi View Post
Thats only a 3.8L V8, I would imagine that it really needs the 8500rpm redline to have it make the power it does. It also doesn't have the fancy twin scroll cross bank technology of the S63Tu.
Well you have good points. That 3.8 liter V8 generates 616 HP (exactly what S63TU generates based on Dinan measurement) and I redlined the engine several times to make sure the maximum power is delivered; however I believe that maximum power must be available in lower RPM (7k and up?) too... It doesn't have that fancy scroll twin technology you referred and that's why I felt "turbo lag" while in sport+ mode I don't feel it in my M6.

Quote:
I had been thinking for a while that the next 6 series could change a bit. A few people think that the 6 series is the top of the range from BMW as far as a drivers car goes. The new 7 will of course be a bit lighter and will 'fix' that to some degree, but the various concepts of a massive sedan from BMW makes me wonder if there might be an 8 series again with 4 doors that is more 7 series based but with sporty intentions and is there to compete with the Bentley Flying Spur and similar. That could let the 6 series coupe be a bit smaller and more radical.
I don't consider 7 series a sport car unless they come up with new models like M770 or M7 or something like that. I believe BMW introduced the current 6er as a sport car and 6GC as sport 4 door car since even 5er (except M5) is not sport car either. As far as 8 series, hopefully it's not another big sedan car. Maybe it's the non electrical version of i8 and the base platform of M8??!!!

Quote:
All current high end BMW's have about 52% weight on the front which isn't ideal with the power they are putting out. If they had free range with the next M6 I wonder if a transaxle could change that around to have more weight on the rear and be close in weight distribution to the 612 Scaglietti, while having much more power.
That's exactly what I'm thinking about. The new AMG GTS has the same configuration (transaxle) and has achieved 47/53 weight distribution. I have a feeling that this configuration beside the M active differential and a more efficient software can help a lot to manage the same power/torque S63tu generates to make a smaller and lighter M6 for next generation and still RWD. Even if they shave some spaces from back seat area (which is useless anyways) and make the car smaller, it helps to move the center of gravity a little toward the back of new platform...
To be honest with you the only issue I see in M6 is traction because of front weight bias. If it was a little rear weight bias, it would be a real rocket from standstill... It's interesting that even with current weight distribution, M6 GC (which is heavier than M6 Coupe) can beat the powerful E63 AMG S model RWD with a lot more torque and less weight from standstill...
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      04-19-2015, 01:44 PM   #14
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Depending on the variant the max power output is at 7000-7500rpm on the Mclaren engine. I've found a few dyno's online that suggest it builds torque steadily to about 4500rpm, then power is around 515hp at the wheels from 6500rpm to 7700rpm or so. Most S63Tu dynos show about 2500rpm to 5000rpm which will make a massive difference to the feel of the car.

I don't quite get the point of having the M6 the size it is for the reason you said (especially as the M4 exists), the back seat isn't really useful! Either make it smaller and lighter and more extreme, or a bit bigger, maybe the same wheelbase as the M6 GC, and maybe the GC could be on the 5 series long wheel base platform for China?

If you made them both a bit bigger that opens up BMW to make a 2 seat or 2+2 Z5 or Z6 available in coupe and convertible just like the Z3M and Z4M. This would be the car that gets the transaxle and ends up with more weight over the rear.

The AMG GT did an amazing lap time on Top Gear of 1:17.5 which is right up there with genuine super and hyper cars - faster than a GT-R and a Veyron! During the current series they said the new M3/M4 was 4 seconds quicker than the old one but didn't actually show it or reveal the exact time, but that would put it at about 1:21, which isn't bad but still a long way off the AMG GT.
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      04-19-2015, 03:31 PM   #15
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Beside the current generation of 7er which is 200" long, M6 GC is 197" long, M5 is 193" long, M3/M4 are 184" long. I hope the next generation of M6 (coupe and convertible) fills the gap (size wise) between M3/M4 and M5 so something about 188-189" long instead of current ~193".... ~4-5" shorter M6 with rear bias weight and this much power/torque would be a fast and nimble car with a lot less traction issue. Like I said something similar to AMG GTS platform
I also hope the next generation of M5 (or 5 er) cut 3" in size and reduce to 190" and then M6 GC (6er GC) 193-194"... this is not something impossible with respect to the current platform. There is a gap of 12-13" between the radiator and the grill and there is nothing over there except the headlights and oil cooler underneath the gap and can be removed easily.
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      04-20-2015, 01:09 AM   #16
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The M5 has a shorter front overhang and of course it is still the same basic chassis so there is no reason the M6 GC can't be the same length as the M5 and the M6 be 4.5" shorter, based on the current wheelbase difference between M6 and M6 GC
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      04-20-2015, 05:27 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M6-Coupe View Post
Very nice car and you did a great job, but something I can't understand is why people like you get 650i and spend 20-30k easily to make their car looks and performs like M6 while it's not an M6 yet? I mean for sure you have spent 20-30k for exhaust, wheels, brakes, suspension, Dinan,... and still you don't have enough performance to compete with M6... with Dinan stage 3 still you have 100HP less than actual power of M6...isn't the different between the price point of M6 Convertible and 650i Convertible 25k? not to mention that M6 has all factory installed kit...
Totally agree, wast of money.
for a "lesser car".
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