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      02-16-2017, 09:33 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zack G. View Post
Ok, here you go guys. It should be clear who is who...but I am on the right, and he is on the left in the texts.

You can see that he agrees to pay the "800".
OK. Please post the receipt for the 200 to fix the wiring and the estimate for the muffler repair.
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      02-16-2017, 09:34 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by upstate650 View Post
OK. Please post the receipt for the 200 to fix the wiring and the estimate for the muffler repair.
I just posted everything above.
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      02-16-2017, 10:07 AM   #69
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A couple observations - the technician clearly states valves are severely corroded - this was nothing that happened during shipping or before install by zack. The receipts also back up his story of having the tips painted and installed before realizing the valves didnt function. The receipts are dated the same day, but the invoice numbers show the painting and install occurred first. He probably test drove it after install, realized the valves didnt work, and took it back.

I also note that the offer by whitewalker to pay the 800 for repair of the valves was given while obviously in financial difficulty due to the disputes going on. The money was locked up and he appeared to be in need of it.
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      02-16-2017, 11:08 AM   #70
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whitewalker - please let me know if you have any response to the documents that have been posted.
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      02-16-2017, 12:43 PM   #71
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Who the heck doesn't drive 30 mins to buy or SELL an item like this locally in person????

I have bought and sold bunch of stuff like this locally, inspecting all the items BEFORE buying it. If not as described, say thank you and walk away.

You meet at a public place like a grocery store parking lot & etc, look at the items and purchase them if they are as described.

Otherwise, you deal with crap like this.

Really, none of you bought a car, motorcycle, wheels & etc in person from a buyer??? Heck, meet at a frikin bank's parking lot if you have trust issues.

I would of walked away the sec the seller starts giving me bs like being too busy. I travel a TON and still make time for stuff like this as long as the buyer is patience with me.
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      02-16-2017, 01:41 PM   #72
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While initially I was siding with WhiteWalker as I read thru the posts, after the texts and the invoice from his shop, I'd side with Zack. Zack, if Paypal does in fact side with the seller again, just charge a chargeback using your credit card. They'll go after Paypal and give you your money back upfront. However, you keeping the exhaust is unfair. If he lives 30 mins away, offer to meet him in a public place and give it back to WhiteWalker.
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      02-16-2017, 02:40 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTG View Post
Who the heck doesn't drive 30 mins to buy or SELL an item like this locally in person????

I have bought and sold bunch of stuff like this locally, inspecting all the items BEFORE buying it. If not as described, say thank you and walk away.

You meet at a public place like a grocery store parking lot & etc, look at the items and purchase them if they are as described.

Otherwise, you deal with crap like this.

Really, none of you bought a car, motorcycle, wheels & etc in person from a buyer??? Heck, meet at a frikin bank's parking lot if you have trust issues.

I would of walked away the sec the seller starts giving me bs like being too busy. I travel a TON and still make time for stuff like this as long as the buyer is patience with me.
I wanted to purchase it in person, especially since we were so close in distance, but like I stated, the seller "couldn't" meet me in person. I was willing to work around his schedule to come and pick it up, however he wanted to strictly ship it to me.
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      02-16-2017, 02:47 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karney5 View Post
While initially I was siding with WhiteWalker as I read thru the posts, after the texts and the invoice from his shop, I'd side with Zack. Zack, if Paypal does in fact side with the seller again, just charge a chargeback using your credit card. They'll go after Paypal and give you your money back upfront. However, you keeping the exhaust is unfair. If he lives 30 mins away, offer to meet him in a public place and give it back to WhiteWalker.
I did file a chargeback already with my CC, however they contacted PayPal and told me they couldn't pursue it further since PayPal told them that the item wasn't returned back to the seller.

I am not looking for a free exhaust, just want what I paid the seller for.

Last edited by Zack G.; 02-16-2017 at 05:36 PM..
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      02-16-2017, 03:46 PM   #75
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After trying to help these two resolve the situation it will have to go to court, as Whitewalker is unwilling to do what he should do.

He clearly sold Zack a non functioning valve system, he essentially acknowledges it and at one point offered to pay for it to be repaired, but now refuses to participate in resolving the case and in his own words "mentally I've already lost that money 10 times already. If I lose $800 in court, so be it, but I'll make sure that no matter what he does he throws good money after bad to get it."

Hard to reason with someone who has an attitude like that. Based on my review, Zack will easily win this court case and get a judgment for his costs and fees in addition to the 800. And he should do so. Then he can attach Whitewalker wage's, seize his bank accounts, have the sheriff seize his car, or whatever else it takes to satisfy the judgment.

The estimate Zack has clearly states the valves are severely corroded. That didn't happen in shipping, and it didn't happen over night. The fact that whitewalker refused to meet personally to sell the exhaust is telling. It is reasonable to infer that he didn't want to meet in person because the buyer might discover that the valves weren't functional and that the wire was cut.

The fact that the seller's paypal account was already flagged for a high degree of risk is also telling.

Anyone thinking about a transaction involving whitewalker should read this thread thoroughly.

This thread should be a model to people of how not to conduct sales of items on the internet.
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Last edited by upstate650; 02-16-2017 at 03:53 PM..
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      02-16-2017, 04:11 PM   #76
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Incorrect my PayPal account was never flagged, please be more cautious what information you speculate on.

Next I was going out of town on business and the buyer wanted the exhaust immediately.

Not meeting them in person is relevant as I paid for shipping and had it delivered to him the very next day. Let alone the inherent risks of meeting a stranger in person for a high dollar cash transaction.

There was ample opportunity and ample reasonable methods to going about his review of the condition of the system when it arrived and contact me with issues.

Anyone who doesn't see why my attitude shifted to where this today towards this buyer i can't help.

It's pretty funny how when the buyer was in the driver seat with the PayPal claims over my head there was a shift in his attitude from that point until where he is now, interesting you don't reference that. He was unwilling to speak negotiate or discuss coming to a mutual resolution.

He wanted to leverage the maximum amount of damage on me for as long as he could anticipating he would win his claims with PayPal, and they didn't find in his favor at all!

He could've returned it and didn't, he took a supposedly non functioning exhaust to go get it painted and installed for his use. Why?

You can post direct quotes from our private conversations all you want but please paraphrase it better by saying as I have throughout this entire process I'm going to defend my position and not just roll over.

In our same conversation you though his wire claim was a scam, so why not this?
You also agreed that he lied that I agreed to give him $800 after you saw the context of the conversation.

The buyer knows how to contact me if he wants to talk and I'll leave it at that.
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      02-16-2017, 04:31 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteWalker View Post
Incorrect my PayPal account was never flagged, please be more cautious what information you speculate on.

Next I was going out of town on business and the buyer wanted the exhaust immediately.

Not meeting them in person is relevant as I paid for shipping and had it delivered to him the very next day. Let alone the inherent risks of meeting a stranger in person for a high dollar cash transaction.

There was ample opportunity and ample reasonable methods to going about his review of the condition of the system when it arrived and contact me with issues.

Anyone who doesn't see why my attitude shifted to where this today towards this buyer i can't help.

It's pretty funny how when the buyer was in the driver seat with the PayPal claims over my head there was a shift in his attitude from that point until where he is now, interesting you don't reference that. He was unwilling to speak negotiate or discuss coming to a mutual resolution.

He wanted to leverage the maximum amount of damage on me for as long as he could anticipating he would win his claims with PayPal, and they didn't find in his favor at all!

He could've returned it and didn't, he took a supposedly non functioning exhaust to go get it painted and installed for his use. Why?

You can post direct quotes from our private conversations all you want but please paraphrase it better by saying as I have throughout this entire process I'm going to defend my position and not just roll over.

In our same conversation you though his wire claim was a scam, so why not this?
You also agreed that he lied that I agreed to give him $800 after you saw the context of the conversation.

The buyer knows how to contact me if he wants to talk and I'll leave it at that.
No I didn't think he lied about you giving him the 800. That's clear in your texts he posted. And your PayPal was flagged - you said you couldn't get paid until you had a delivery receipt. My PayPal doesn't require that and neither does anyone else's I know. You posted a link to the reasons why that is sometimes required and it is because of high risk transactions and a history of complaints. So yes you were flagged for that. And I think he overcharged you for the wire repair - it wasn't a scam. It was clearly damaged out of the box and he has the pictures to prove it.

You can try and justify all you want but the fact remains you sold a non functioning exhaust valve system and refuse to make good on it. Everyone here can see that for themselves. The fact that you continue to try to justify your actions is baffling. Good luck doing business on this website again.

The worst part is, you make it harder for all of is to conduct business. When people like you are out there selling damaged good and refusing to live up to your responsibilities it makes it harder for those of us selling and it makes buyers leery. That drives down the cost of goods and drives up the risk. People like you are why credit card fees and PayPal fees are high - because they have to spend money resolving ridiculous claims by people trying to scam others. So you cost all of us money through actions like this.


You should just man up and take care of this mess you have made.

Please don't bother to respond anymore, unless it's to tell us that you took care of things with the buyer. I've wasted entirely too much time thinking I could help you two out.

Last edited by upstate650; 02-16-2017 at 04:46 PM..
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      02-16-2017, 05:01 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upstate650 View Post
After trying to help these two resolve the situation it will have to go to court, as Whitewalker is unwilling to do what he should do.

He clearly sold Zack a non functioning valve system, he essentially acknowledges it and at one point offered to pay for it to be repaired, but now refuses to participate in resolving the case and in his own words "mentally I've already lost that money 10 times already. If I lose $800 in court, so be it, but I'll make sure that no matter what he does he throws good money after bad to get it."

Hard to reason with someone who has an attitude like that. Based on my review, Zack will easily win this court case and get a judgment for his costs and fees in addition to the 800. And he should do so. Then he can attach Whitewalker wage's, seize his bank accounts, have the sheriff seize his car, or whatever else it takes to satisfy the judgment.

The estimate Zack has clearly states the valves are severely corroded. That didn't happen in shipping, and it didn't happen over night. The fact that whitewalker refused to meet personally to sell the exhaust is telling. It is reasonable to infer that he didn't want to meet in person because the buyer might discover that the valves weren't functional and that the wire was cut.

The fact that the seller's paypal account was already flagged for a high degree of risk is also telling.

Anyone thinking about a transaction involving whitewalker should read this thread thoroughly.

This thread should be a model to people of how not to conduct sales of items on the internet.
Thank you for trying to help us amicably resolve this. I wanted everyone to know the situation on this forum so that they don't go through something similar.
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      02-16-2017, 05:10 PM   #79
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Incorrect again.

The link I sent was served two purposes, to show you, who said it wasn't possible, paypal can hold funds up front they in fact can, and highlight the potential the multiple claims attempts could put me in poor standing.

Due to the fact I won said claims however, all accounts are in great standing. I'd appreciate if you would stop suggesting otherwise.
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      02-16-2017, 05:27 PM   #80
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To answer WhiteWalker post
Incorrect my PayPal account was never flagged, please be more cautious what information you speculate on.

Next I was going out of town on business and the buyer wanted the exhaust immediately. I was willing to wait to pick it up in person and accommodate your schedule, you refused.

Not meeting them in person is relevant as I paid for shipping and had it delivered to him the very next day. Let alone the inherent risks of meeting a stranger in person for a high dollar cash transaction. Yes you did pay for shipping, however had you asked me to meet you in any public place for safety/security reasons, I would have gladly done that.

There was ample opportunity and ample reasonable methods to going about his review of the condition of the system when it arrived and contact me with issues. That's exactly what I did, the moment I discovered the first issue, I called you immediately and you told me you were with clients, however you had the time to text but didn't want to talk over the phone. What other reasonable methods would there be? Are you referring to ME actually testing the valves myself to make sure the valves worked? If so, WHO does that? I took your word that everything was in working condition.

Anyone who doesn't see why my attitude shifted to where this today towards this buyer i can't help.

It's pretty funny how when the buyer was in the driver seat with the PayPal claims over my head there was a shift in his attitude from that point until where he is now, interesting you don't reference that. He was unwilling to speak negotiate or discuss coming to a mutual resolution. There was no shift in my attitude, I let PayPal do their thing, but obviously they are not always right. They only ruled in your favor because the exhaust wasn't returned to you. I was unwilling to speak to come to a resolution? Is that a joke? I called you multiple times and you always dodged my calls, so don't say that I was unwilling....it was YOU that was unwilling to do so.

He wanted to leverage the maximum amount of damage on me for as long as he could anticipating he would win his claims with PayPal, and they didn't find in his favor at all! Not true, I wasn't leveraging anything on you. I wanted you to just pay me what you owed me to get it to working advertised condition and thats it.

He could've returned it and didn't, he took a supposedly non functioning exhaust to go get it painted and installed for his use. Why? Because you told me you were going to cover the cost to repair it, plus I wanted the exhaust. I would have also had the cost of shipping it back to you, since you probably wouldn't have met up with me anyway to get it back.

You can post direct quotes from our private conversations all you want but please paraphrase it better by saying as I have throughout this entire process I'm going to defend my position and not just roll over. What position do you have to defend? You sold a product that was not as advertised and you wont be a man and take care of the situation amicably.

In our same conversation you though his wire claim was a scam, so why not this?
You also agreed that he lied that I agreed to give him $800 after you saw the context of the conversation.

The buyer knows how to contact me if he wants to talk and I'll leave it at that.
I tried contacting you MULTIPLE times by phone and you always dodge phone calls.


Quote:
Originally Posted by upstate650 View Post
No I didn't think he lied about you giving him the 800. That's clear in your texts he posted. And your PayPal was flagged - you said you couldn't get paid until you had a delivery receipt. My PayPal doesn't require that and neither does anyone else's I know. You posted a link to the reasons why that is sometimes required and it is because of high risk transactions and a history of complaints. So yes you were flagged for that. And I think he overcharged you for the wire repair - it wasn't a scam. It was clearly damaged out of the box and he has the pictures to prove it.

You can try and justify all you want but the fact remains you sold a non functioning exhaust valve system and refuse to make good on it. Everyone here can see that for themselves. The fact that you continue to try to justify your actions is baffling. Good luck doing business on this website again.

The worst part is, you make it harder for all of is to conduct business. When people like you are out there selling damaged good and refusing to live up to your responsibilities it makes it harder for those of us selling and it makes buyers leery. That drives down the cost of goods and drives up the risk. People like you are why credit card fees and PayPal fees are high - because they have to spend money resolving ridiculous claims by people trying to scam others. So you cost all of us money through actions like this.


You should just man up and take care of this mess you have made.

Please don't bother to respond anymore, unless it's to tell us that you took care of things with the buyer. I've wasted entirely too much time thinking I could help you two out.
Thank you for pointing this out to the seller.

He needs to realize that he should man up and do the right thing.

Last edited by Zack G.; 02-16-2017 at 05:34 PM..
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      02-17-2017, 09:21 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by WhiteWalker View Post
Incorrect again.

The link I sent was served two purposes, to show you, who said it wasn't possible, paypal can hold funds up front they in fact can, and highlight the potential the multiple claims attempts could put me in poor standing.

Due to the fact I won said claims however, all accounts are in great standing. I'd appreciate if you would stop suggesting otherwise.
In post #31 you said this: "I wanted a tracking number so PayPal could confirm delivery and released funds.

I had two very high dollar PayPal transactions on hold for this unit that required delivery confirmation to be released. I obviously wanted to protect myself from him saying he never received the item if he came and got it in person."

You said previously you needed to have a tracking number so your money would be released. That would only be necessary if your account had already been flagged by Papal for suspicious or high risk activity or a history of chargebacks and complaints - that is according to the paypal web page YOU posted. Now you are claiming there was no hold period on your account?

I sold a 20K+ car on paypal and never had a delay in receiving my money - it has nothing to do with the dollar value of whats being sold, but the risk of the item or individual.

Your two posts are inconsistent - they both cant be true. So which one of your statements is the truth?
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