FS - Meisterschaft GTC-EV

[Mr.SugarSkulls]

Fuck it- I say we take matters to Judge Judy.

[upstate650]

Originally Posted by Mr.SugarSkulls

Fuck it- I say we take matters to Judge Judy.

It would be quicker and cheaper for both sides to accept the ruling of the court of public opinion (ie this forum). Both sides put your evidence up for us all to see. Who better to stand in judgment of you than a fellow enthusiast?

[Zack G.]

My response is in red.

Originally Posted by WhiteWalker

Everyone should know we have submitted all emails and texts to the PayPal dispute team as buyer opened (2) claims for one problem.

He was able to do so because he split the payment to purchase the exhaust, he then tried to leverage two separate claims to collect the same amount. Correct, I did split the purchase into 2 payments, one via credit card, the other via PayPal Credit. Again, I was not looking to recoup $803.48 from both claims, only from one.

Additionally he has a chargeback filed with his card issuer which have kept half the funds on hold since November. I filed the chargeback with my credit card since PayPal ruled in your favor ONLY because I did not send the exhaust back to you.

The buyer lost the claim, both claims with PayPal. This is a last ditch effort and smear campaign. As stated my buyer/seller rating are flawless. Yes, both claims were closed in your favor incorrectly, and again, this is due to me not sending the exhaust back to you. Those are PayPal's policies apparently. Your rating and reputation are not flawless, as you have an ongoing issue that you refuse to resolve and do the right thing. This is not a smear campaign in any way, just wanted to put everyone on alert that is thinking of doing business with you.

The buyer also doesn't report how he already tricked me out of $200 to replace the valve wires he sliced when unboxing the exhaust, fed ex that cost me $400+ to pack, send and insure for the full purchase price. I did not trick you in any way. I regret not video taping the unboxing to show you how surprised./dissapointed I was that when the box was opened the wire was dangling on by a thread. I have NO reason to lie and waste time if I actually cut the wire during unboxing. I would have taken responsibility for it, I wouldn't try and blame you for something that was due to my mistake.

The pictures I took prior to sending clearly show the wires in tact, perfect, just as the unit was. I have pictures upon arrival that show otherwise. I even have a witness that was with me during the unboxing when the initial damage of the spliced wire was discovered.

Throughout the PayPal claims process I asked him to provide a photo of the valve wire repair or invoice for the part my $200 went to also validate any further issues he was claiming to have. He didn't! I didn't need to show you anything because of the way you were handling the situation.

He had multiple multiple opportunities to pack up the exhaust and send it back, all orchestrated by PayPal. He didn't! First of all, you told me all sales are final initially. Plus, I wanted the exhaust, and at that point the tips were already painted black so I couldn't send it back to you.

Why?---He took the exhaust- custom painted the tips black, installed it, and has been driving with it since November. Let me just repeat for everyone, I still have $900+ outstanding in paypal control to this day. Correct, I had the tips painted black which is why I couldn't send the exhaust back to you. I had not been told about the EV issue until only after the tips were painted black and installed on the car. Had I known the exhaust had the EV issue prior to painting the tips black and being installed on my car, it would have been returned back to you. My credit card company released the funds back as they closed the case since PayPal told them that the exhaust wasn't sent back to you (because of the reason I mentioned above).

I am always open to assisting any situation where the issue is legitimate and everyone is honest and has good intentions. This is a VERY legitimate issue that you refuse to take care of. I am very honest and my intentions are good. I simply just wanted a good working exhaust that didn't have these issues that were not disclosed to me. Do you think I would want to go through all these hassles just for fun?

I was suspicious of the "cut wire", I paid you. I was suspicious from the get go when you refused for me to see the exhaust and let me buy it from you in person, we are 30min away, this is not a different state sale. You always were "out of town", but the exhaust needed to be shipped anyway. I was very flexible and would have come by to pick it up at YOUR convenience, and you knew this.

I sent 4 remotes you claimed to get 2. Again I was suspicious but I sent you two more remotes. This is not even the issue, but I received 1 black, and 2 red from you.

I was always courteous and responsive to you but when you went behind my back and figured out a way to leverage your split payment into an additional fake 2nd claim for the same amount-- same issue, you sir, showed your character and I saw your intentions clearly then. I did not go behind your back in any way, so don't even say that. I had every right to open the 2nd dispute as it was for 1 item. Had it been for a separate item, I would agree with you, however 2 transactions were for 1 item which was defective. Again, I was only looking to recoup $803.48 and it didn't matter which claim it was to come from...I was NOT looking to reclaim $803.48 from both claims.

I have no trust in you or anything you say. If there had been a point in time where you had somehow convinced me to give you more money, all that went out the window when you made your choices on how to handle this matter overall and multiple attempts to play the system. I have nothing but good intentions. I was not looking to play games, I just wanted to get what I paid for (like everyone else), however I got a defective exhaust which was not disclosed to me.

You were so confident that PayPal was going to find in your favor, reiterated that to me so many times. You put me in a position needlessly with your 2nd fake claim where my account was -$2000 days before Christmas. I did everything short of begging you to close the second false claim you admitted you knew was wrong(documented). Apparently PayPal's policy is that I had to return it to get my money back. However since I was keeping it, and had the tips painted, I couldn't return it back to you anyway. The 2nd claim was not a "fake claim", it was for the same items, again, that was split into 2 payments for the SAME item. Its not like I opened a claim about a spoiler, etc that I bought separately from you.

I told you very clearly I would no longer deal with you directly and you practically dared me to let PayPal make their decision. I did. Thats fine if you don't want to deal with me directly. I just wanted everyone on this forum to be aware of you and this sale.

Your effort to disparage my character and commerce reputation will have no impact on me conducting business and relationships moving forward. You disparaged your own character by not doing the right thing. I am just bringing everyone on this forum so they are fully aware of you and this transaction.

Good luck.

Everyone should know we have submitted all emails and texts to the PayPal dispute team as buyer opened (2) claims for one problem.

He was able to do so because he split the payment to purchase the exhaust, he then tried to leverage two separate claims to collect the same amount.

Additionally he has a chargeback filed with his card issuer which have kept half the funds on hold since November.

The buyer lost the claim, both claims with PayPal. This is a last ditch effort and smear campaign. As stated my buyer/seller rating are flawless.

The buyer also doesn't report how he already tricked me out of $200 to replace the valve wires he sliced when unboxing the exhaust, fed ex that cost me $400+ to pack, send and insure for the full purchase price.

The pictures I took prior to sending clearly show the wires in tact, perfect, just as the unit was.

Throughout the PayPal claims process I asked him to provide a photo of the valve wire repair or invoice for the part my $200 went to also validate any further issues he was claiming to have. He didn't!

He had multiple multiple opportunities to pack up the exhaust and send it back, all orchestrated by PayPal. He didn't!

Why?---He took the exhaust- custom painted the tips black, installed it, and has been driving with it since November. Let me just repeat for everyone, I still have $900+ outstanding in paypal control to this day.

I am always open to assisting any situation where the issue is legitimate and everyone is honest and has good intentions.

I was suspicious of the "cut wire", I paid you.

I sent 4 remotes you claimed to get 2. Again I was suspicious but I sent you two more remotes .

I was always courteous and responsive to you but when you went behind my back and figured out a way to leverage your split payment into an additional fake 2nd claim for the same amount-- same issue, you sir, showed your character and I saw your intentions clearly then.

I have no trust in you or anything you say. If there had been a point in time where you had somehow convinced me to give you more money, all that went out the window when you made your choices on how to handle this matter overall and multiple attempts to play the system.

You were so confident that PayPal was going to find in your favor, reiterated that to me so many times. You put me in a position needlessly with your 2nd fake claim where my account was -$2000 days before Christmas. I did everything short of begging you to close the second false claim you admitted you knew was wrong(documented).

I told you very clearly I would no longer deal with you directly and you practically dared me to let PayPal make their decision. I did.

Your effort to disparage my character and commerce reputation will have no impact on me conducting business and relationships moving forward.

Good luck.

[Zack G.]

Originally Posted by upstate650

Thanks for giving your side of this. There are always at least two sides to a story.

Forget all the back and forth and who said what what and did what. The situation is really very simple. Did you advertise that the exhaust was fully functional, and do you acknowledge that the valve system doesn't work because the electronic valve controls are shot?

Yes, I am glad that he responded.

Agreed, the situation is very simple to resolve, however the seller is unwilling to resolve it.

[Zack G.]

Originally Posted by upstate650

It would be quicker and cheaper for both sides to accept the ruling of the court of public opinion (ie this forum). Both sides put your evidence up for us all to see. Who better to stand in judgment of you than a fellow enthusiast?

This will be taken to court if the seller doesn't do the right thing, and that is to pay $803.48 to get this resolved.

[Mr.SugarSkulls]

:


I think both need to set aside the time to discuss with cool heads and figure out a resolution then simply move on.

One things for sure (at least this is what I took from this situation) if ever buying a used product from forums/the internet- make sure you document (record) the day, time, and moment of opening the package just in case it's a busted product. Would have saved a few head aches here.

[upstate650]

Originally Posted by Zack G.

Yes, I am glad that he responded.

Agreed, the situation is very simple to resolve, however the seller is unwilling to resolve it.

Thanks for taking the time to give a detailed response. Hopefully the other side will answer the simple question I posed.

Another question I have for him based on your responses - why did you insist on mailing the exhaust when he was only 30 minutes away and willing to meet to conduct the sale in person?

[WhiteWalker]

The info is out there- mission accomplished.

I'll continue to buy and sell in a manner which corresponds to my unblemished record of doing so, unaffected by you further.

I'll be prepared with (2) PayPal case findings ruled in my favor for any further legal action you take. If taken, I would advise choosing the words and information you post about me publicly more wisely going forward.

[upstate650]

Originally Posted by WhiteWalker

The info is out there- mission accomplished.

I'll continue to buy and sell in a manner which corresponds to my unblemished record of doing so, unaffected by you further.

I'll be prepared with (2) PayPal case findings ruled in my favor for any further legal action you take. If taken, I would advise choosing the words and information you post about me publicly more wisely going forward.

So you don't want to answer the questions and attempt to resolve this amicably?

By the way, paypal decisions, especially under these circumstances, are meaningless, inadmissable, and carry no res judicata effect.

[WhiteWalker]

I shipped the item for a few reasons, namely to protect both sides.

I wanted a tracking number so PayPal could confirm delivery and released funds.

I had two very high dollar PayPal transactions on hold for this unit that required delivery confirmation to be released. I obviously wanted to protect myself from him saying he never received the item if he came and got it in person.

Everything on PayPal says do not except or deliver goods in person on PayPal transactions.

I also insured the unit for $2,500+ through shipper.

Let's also set aside logistics and transportation, the fact that I don't know this guy and meeting someone for a large quantity of cash is not my idea of a smart decision these days.

Waiting to see his last attempt at a charge back is determined. I don't have the money in my account anyway so if I lose that claim mentally I've already moved forward.

I'll continue to defend myself in the manner which is proven successful to this point.

Take me to court, if I lose there then so be it but
I will most certainly make sure the plaintiff is throwing good money after bad.

[upstate650]

Originally Posted by WhiteWalker

I shipped the item for a few reasons, namely to protect both sides.

I wanted a tracking number so PayPal could confirm delivery and released funds.

I had two very high dollar PayPal transactions on hold for this unit that required delivery confirmation to be released. I obviously wanted to protect myself from him saying he never received the item if he came and got it in person.

Everything on PayPal says do not except or deliver goods in person on PayPal transactions.

I also insured the unit for $2,500+ through shipper.

Let's also set aside logistics and transportation, the fact that I don't know this guy and meeting someone for a large quantity of cash is not my idea of a smart decision these days.

Waiting to see his last attempt at a charge back is determined. I don't have the money in my account anyway so if I lose that claim mentally I've already moved forward.

I'll continue to defend myself in the manner which is proven successful to this point.

Take me to court, if I lose there then so be it but
I will most certainly make sure the plaintiff is throwing good money after bad.

I can understand your safety concerns, but I have never heard of a proof of delivery requirement for paypal transactions. I have sold and purchased many things using paypal, and never came across this problem.

So are you refusing to answer the question of whether you advertised a functioning system, and whether you acknowledge that the system as delivered did not function as intended?

[WhiteWalker]

No, I'm not refusing, that's the root of the whole dispute. Buyer says item didn't work, I certainly disagree!

I didn't advertise for sale a deficient unit, it didn't have wire or valve issues until in his possession.

Oh and that's after he painted the thing, installed it, and listed his other exhaust for sale on here.

PayPal said send it back and gave him 3 separate deadlines and extensions during the dispute process to return. I have 3 emails from PayPal telling me he shipping the exhaust back!

I would have had to accept it and he would have been refunded.

[Zack G.]

Originally Posted by Mr.SugarSkulls

:


I think both need to set aside the time to discuss with cool heads and figure out a resolution then simply move on.

One things for sure (at least this is what I took from this situation) if ever buying a used product from forums/the internet- make sure you document (record) the day, time, and moment of opening the package just in case it's a busted product. Would have saved a few head aches here.

I am willing to do that, but I don't think the seller would be interested in that.

I am all for resolving things amicably, however he gives me no other choice if he isn't willing to resolve this issue. If he just resolved it, he wouldn't hear from me ever again and that would be the end of it.

You are absolutely correct, I wish that I had recorded the opening of the box to reveal the initial spliced wire. Like I mentioned, I did have a witness with me so he could testify if needed.

[upstate650]

Originally Posted by WhiteWalker

No, I'm not refusing, that's the root of the whole dispute. Buyer says item didn't work, I certainly disagree!

I didn't advertise for sale a deficient unit, it didn't have wire or valve issues until in his possession.

Oh and that's after he painted the thing, installed it, and listed his other exhaust for sale on here.

PayPal said send it back and gave him 3 separate deadlines and extensions during the dispute process to return. I have 3 emails from PayPal telling me he shipping the exhaust back!

I would have had to accept it and he would have been refunded.

And did he provide you with proof from a reputable installer that the valves were inoperable due to corrosion or whatever it was that they said was the reason it didn't work?

I don't know either of you, but if I was going to paint my tips I would do it before I installed the exhaust, and how would he know whether the valves worked or not until it was installed?

Did you tell him you would take it back with painted tips? Did you tell him you would pay for the replacement of the valves?

I'm just trying to boil this case down to its essence for both of you.

[WhiteWalker]

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mp...s-availability

Funds are released in:
3 days post delivery w/ tracking #
7 days post delivery no tracking #
21 days no record of delivery

[Zack G.]

Originally Posted by WhiteWalker

The info is out there- mission accomplished.

I'll continue to buy and sell in a manner which corresponds to my unblemished record of doing so, unaffected by you further.

I'll be prepared with (2) PayPal case findings ruled in my favor for any further legal action you take. If taken, I would advise choosing the words and information you post about me publicly more wisely going forward.

Again, PayPal ruled in your favor only because I didn't send the item back to you. And I didn't send the item back because the tips were painted black already.

I have not threatened you in any way, so your last remark is unnecessary. What words have I posted about you publicly other than stating what happened? That your reputation is tarnished? I want everyone on this forum to be aware of this sale, there is nothing wrong with me doing that as I feel that I have bought a product from you that was not as advertised and don't want anyone else to go through something like this.

[upstate650]

Originally Posted by WhiteWalker

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mp...s-availability

Funds are released in:
3 days post delivery w/ tracking #
7 days post delivery no tracking #
21 days no record of delivery

well, that webpage explains why I have never had this issue - it only applies when there is a high degree of risk associated with your account.

From the webpage -

Why could your funds be temporarily unavailable?
Your funds may be unavailable when we associate a high level of risk with your account. There are three main reasons causing us to believe this:
You’re a new seller with PayPal.
It takes time for new sellers to build up enough history to demonstrate a pattern of positive buyer-seller exchanges. The good news is that you can usually move out of delayed funds availability by confirming your identity and building up a history of sales and happy customers.
Your customers indicate issues about your selling performance.
Performance is based on your percentage of refunds, disputes, and chargebacks compared to your sales on your PayPal account. Having performance issues increases the likelihood of your funds being temporarily unavailable. Working to prevent and resolve these problems quickly will help you avoid the delay of available funds.
There’s a higher than average risk associated with your sales activity.
If there is some other indication that a high level of risk is present, your money could be temporarily unavailable. You may be selling what we consider high-risk items. High-risk items include tickets, gift cards, consumer electronics, computers, and travel packages. Another example of higher risk sales activity is a recent spike in sales or historical change in average selling price or type of item being sold. “High risk” could also mean your account has suspicious account behavior or is more likely to have disputes, claims, buyer chargebacks, or other reversals.

[upstate650]

Originally Posted by WhiteWalker

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mp...s-availability

Funds are released in:
3 days post delivery w/ tracking #
7 days post delivery no tracking #
21 days no record of delivery

please answer the other questions, though.

[Zack G.]

Originally Posted by upstate650

And did he provide you with proof from a reputable installer that the valves were inoperable due to corrosion or whatever it was that they said was the reason it didn't work?

I don't know either of you, but if I was going to paint my tips I would do it before I installed the exhaust, and how would he know whether the valves worked or not until it was installed?

Did you tell him you would take it back with painted tips? Did you tell him you would pay for the replacement of the valves?

I'm just trying to boil this case down to its essence for both of you.

Thank you for trying to help us resolve this amicably.

I have documentation from the shop (which is very reputable and has been around for a very long time) which I can't remember if I sent this to the seller or not (but happy to do so if he'd like to see it). They stated their observation upon installation and what is needed to get it to advertised working condition.

The seller told me that I should have had the shop test the valves out to make sure they worked before I painted the exhaust tips and had the exhaust installed on my car. To me, that doesn't make sense at all.

We did not have the discussion about him taking it back with black painted tips because he doesn't want it back now.

He told me he would pay me the "$800" via text messages. With his permission, I could release them and cover any personal information of his.

[WhiteWalker]

Upstate, it actually is very simple to boil away the nonsense here, I've been doing it for months.

Paypal told us very clearly if the item was shipped back, you would have been given a refund basically if i liked it or not!

Buyer knows he could have returned item because as every ship deadline approached he somehow got another week extension, I got another email saying buyer is "returning for a full refund".

If the exhaust was back in my possession, anything from that point regarding the painted tips, wires, install and use that I felt was out of the condition I sold it in, would have required a full appeals process with PayPal for me to recoup any funds I felt I lost. The onus falls on me at that point.

For a long, long time I was always open to to working with the buyer, but note a few conditions the seller always refused, red flags to me, such as:
-Please close the second fake claim you have because of the insane amount of money you have taken out of my account.
**Opening a second erroneous claim to increase your odds and double down on getting a decision in your favor was never good business.

-Please send me a picture of the valve wire buyer bought and replaced on the system using the first $200 he took from me.

[Zack G.]

Originally Posted by WhiteWalker

Upstate, it actually is very simple to boil away the nonsense here, I've been doing it for months.

Paypal told us very clearly if the item was shipped back, you would have been given a refund basically if i liked it or not!

Buyer knows he could have returned item because as every ship deadline approached he somehow got another week extension, I got another email saying buyer is "returning for a full refund".

If the exhaust was back in my possession, anything from that point regarding the painted tips, wires, install and use that I felt was out of the condition I sold it in, would have required a full appeals process with PayPal for me to recoup any funds I felt I lost. The onus falls on me at that point.

For a long, long time I was always open to to working with the buyer, but note a few conditions the seller always refused, red flags to me, such as:
-Please close the second fake claim you have because of the insane amount of money you have taken out of my account.
**Opening a second erroneous claim to increase your odds and double down on getting a decision in your favor was never good business.

-Please send me a picture of the valve wire buyer bought and replaced on the system using the first $200 he took from me.

PayPal's policy is that in order for me to have sent it back, it would have to be in the same condition as I received it in. Having that I painted the tips black, you would have argued that it has been altered and I would not have received a refund for the Meisterschaft.

PayPal kept sending those emails because PayPal is PayPal. I told PayPal every time that I will be keeping the exhaust when I was in communication with them.

The 2nd claim was not a fake claim. Both claims related to ONE item that was defective. I asked to be refunded for one amount, and I was not seeking $803.48 from both claims, just one.

Reference the picture of the valve wire that you requested, I didn't need to send pictures because you weren't cooperating with me.

[upstate650]

Originally Posted by WhiteWalker

Upstate, it actually is very simple to boil away the nonsense here, I've been doing it for months.

Paypal told us very clearly if the item was shipped back, you would have been given a refund basically if i liked it or not!

Buyer knows he could have returned item because as every ship deadline approached he somehow got another week extension, I got another email saying buyer is "returning for a full refund".

If the exhaust was back in my possession, anything from that point regarding the painted tips, wires, install and use that I felt was out of the condition I sold it in, would have required a full appeals process with PayPal for me to recoup any funds I felt I lost. The onus falls on me at that point.

For a long, long time I was always open to to working with the buyer, but note a few conditions the seller always refused, red flags to me, such as:
-Please close the second fake claim you have because of the insane amount of money you have taken out of my account.
**Opening a second erroneous claim to increase your odds and double down on getting a decision in your favor was never good business.

-Please send me a picture of the valve wire buyer bought and replaced on the system using the first $200 he took from me.

I dont know whether what you are saying about paypal is true, but he could reasonably worried his return would fall through since with painted tips it was not in the same condition as it was when you sold it to him.
You two were apparently having discussions about you paying for the valves to be replaced, and he says he has texts to prove it. It could be reasonable for him to prefer fixing the exhaust he has rather than paying to take it off, reinstall his old one if he still has it, and incur all that extra expense.

Forget about paypal though - it is truly immaterial.

As far as pictures - yes, Zack should send pictures of the cut wires and the repairs, assuming he had it repaired, although that is kind if immaterial as he isnt required to actually use the money to repair it. Just like if you are involved in a fender bender and the insurance company pays you for your damage, you aren't required to get the car fixed.
'
Pictures are part of proving your claim, and if he has them he should send them. just as he should also send whatever paperwork he has from the installer proving the condition of the valves. When you present hard evidence, its hard to argue about it.