02-04-2014, 08:21 AM | #45 | ||
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Oh and I had a 2008 M5 (manual btw) and a 2006 550 (automatic) and I preferred the 550. The M5 might have handled a little better, but I was not taking it to the track and the torque.. wow, the car (M5) had no torque. They have fixed that in the new one and damn, it is good looking, but I think I would still take it in stick oh and with AWD
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02-04-2014, 09:45 AM | #46 |
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I meant stock from the showroom, but yes, a good winter/tire package is a must in the northeast. Had Blizzak's on a 911 S and they handled the snow pretty good. But once the snowfall exceeded 5 or 6 inches ground clearance was an issue. I got tired of swapping the winter packages every winter. It certainly changes the dynamics of the car and if you get lucky with a mild winter it was a waste.
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05-29-2014, 11:14 AM | #47 |
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The V8 coupe with the sport package is the sweet spot for me. Sporty GT, not sports car. While the M6 fits this description too, it is a step more towards sports car. I find the M Sport package just right.
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05-29-2014, 02:32 PM | #48 | ||||
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How do you compare ZF8 with DCT? Quote:
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please read my quote on other thread: Quote:
and +1000 to whatever LSM said
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05-29-2014, 10:06 PM | #49 | ||
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???? I'm kind of confused by this. Can you see through the CF roof? If not, then it is not nicer. The M6 GC is one of the darkest interiors I've ever been in. The lack of sunroof in that car removes it from my list and many other's list. So no, it is not as nice - in fact, the painted roof and black sunroof look better - to me at least.
Most would say that the ZF8 is superior for daily driving. The DCT blows it away on the track of course, but I'm thinking that most of us spend our time on the street. Quote:
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"it's not just about power! the more important thing is how to manage and control that power and that's why you need sporty suspension and some fast transmission like DCT." go against the M6 and go in favor of the more nimble 911.
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05-29-2014, 11:26 PM | #50 | |
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According to your last comment (911 compare to M6GC) , how do you want to compare a 3000 lb, small (176" long), rear engine, 2 door, Sport car with a 4400 lb, big (197" long), front engine, 4 door, GT car? which part is comparable?
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05-30-2014, 04:52 PM | #51 | ||
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Except for the sunroof (j/k) Quote:
"a machine by and for those who must go further, faster.....when you unleash it on curves, you will gain a sense of control you've never experienced before. You will be able to feel both its precision uniting with its beautifully engineered high performance...." So the comparison here is that they are both sports cars, both cost about the same, and well, considered in the same segment by most people. (ultimately I agree with you - two very different cars - just pointing out the world doesn't see it our way).
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05-31-2014, 01:22 AM | #52 | ||||
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You referred to Chicago winter and I agree with you that maybe M6 is not a good choice for that weather and that’s why I said 650i Xdrive GC is the best choice for you, but my original quote was on other member’s quotes in this thread “ M6 vs 650i M Sport Package” comparing two cars and commenting to save money by tuning the 650i M Sport package to get extra HP and torque. My point is even having the same power does not mean the same handling! I saw a guy who had a tuned Camaro with 700+ HP and I asked him about his car to compare with my previous 650i. He simply said 650i can catch him easily in every aspect (due to traction/handling issue his car had because of that 700+ HP) except high speed!. The same thing here... A tuned 650i even with M Sport package does not have the same handling M6 has. As far as sunroof, they were talking about look, not seeing through and IMO, CF roof is much nicer (more good looking) than sunroof! Again, 650i is a beautiful, nice, luxury car and M6 is a powerful Sport-luxury car. Two different animals for two different tastes. Anyone who has/had both cars can tell you the significant difference easily. Quote:
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05-31-2014, 07:34 AM | #53 | |
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Even worse, if BMW was really serious about the M6 they would do something real about the weight and not do gimmicky things like the CF roof. I'm betting that if you could get a M6 or M6GC without sunroof it would perform almost exactly the same as one with a CF roof. But I digress As for the 911 and M6 - well they are both 4 seat $100K sports cars, so they are going to be compared to each other.
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05-31-2014, 11:39 AM | #54 | ||
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Carbon roof. Ultra lightweight with finesse. The contoured roof made of CFRP high-tech material effectively lowers the weight and centre of gravity for even better driving characteristics. Whether in motor racing or in aviation – wherever maximum performance has to be supplied with minimum weight under extreme conditions, carbon-fibre reinforced plastic is employed. In the BMW M6 Coupé, this innovative composite material with its outstanding properties guarantees a maximum of stability and protection. The lower weight reduces the vehicle’s centre of gravity – the basis for even more precise handling and higher speeds when cornering. Dynamic contours follow the ideal line of characteristic M design, thus giving the roof an elongated appearance. The BMW M6 Coupé appears to lie even lower and more firmly on the road http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicle...ontop.html#t=l For sure the next generations of all Sport cars will have more CF.
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05-31-2014, 11:41 AM | #55 |
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So based on your logic, why don’t you or anybody compare MB S63 or E63 or CLS63 or Porsche Panamera turbo S or GTR or …. To 911? All have 4 seats and 100K+… correct?
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05-31-2014, 09:15 PM | #56 | |
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06-01-2014, 05:41 AM | #57 | |
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The CF roof of the M6 does a better job of lowering the center of gravity than saving weight. If I recall the weight reduction is about 32 pounds over the glass power sunroof, not much on a 4200 pound car, but it's off the top which helps lower CG. In fact, BMW lists unlaiden weight of the M6 at only 20 pounds less than the 650i. I can gain and lose that much weight just by skipping dessert. More to the point, this difference can change based on options. What really makes the M6 the M6 is the S63 engine, DCT and its suspension tune. |
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06-01-2014, 10:29 AM | #58 | |
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the 911 and M6 are two door cars.... The E63/Panamera/M5 are four door cars...
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06-01-2014, 10:55 AM | #59 | |
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Agree about Center of Gravity and that’s why I posted the link referring to both weight and center of gravity. Beside the engine, transmission and suspension you mentioned, I believe the differential (Avtive M LSD differential), steering and braking systems are also major factors to make M6.
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06-01-2014, 11:02 AM | #60 | ||
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Now you are going by door 911 vs M6 coupe! Still different cars even if they have the same numbers of doors... Sport vs GT
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06-01-2014, 11:28 AM | #61 | |
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I really hope BMW doesn't think the same way you do. Because I'm positive they can do better (and I suspect they know it too based on what happened with the new M3/M4 losing weight rather than gaining).
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06-01-2014, 11:58 AM | #62 |
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500 lb ???? really?? you mean E63 or E64? I thought E64 was 4400 lb and F12 is 4500 lb !!!!
E64: http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-M6-2010/specs/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M6 http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/m6/2009/f...tyle=101109234 F12: http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx I think we have to compare Coupe to Coupe and Convertible to Convertible correct? FYI F12/F13 are bigger than E63/E64 and has more power and torque and is much faster I really can't understand your logics at all; however I'm trying Why are you comparing different cars all the time when there are not the same? E63 and F12 have just one common word .... M6 Convertible ... are they the same car? same engine? same drive train? the same power and torque? suspension and steering? interior and exterior? the same options? Dude, I'm again confused... Unfortunately people think a lighter car is always faster... yes it's faster but if it has more power and if it's controllable/drivable ... you can put the S63 engine on E92 body and call it faster than M6, but is that car drivable? or need thousands of dollars to design specific suspension, drivetrain and .... to be able to be driven! it's not just weight and power... have you ever driven C5 or C6 Corvette? powerful + light with no traction for low dollar... now your favorite car (911) power + light + traction... twice the price for 911 base
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06-01-2014, 01:13 PM | #63 | |
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And I assure you that if BMW were to lower the weight of the M6, it would perform better. PS - now we are talking corvettes? Interesting. Once again, the 911 and the M6 are cross shopped and considered in the same segment - two door, four seat sports cars costing $100K. You can question it all you want, but it is the fact and once again, to be clear, if you read my posts, I said "ultimately I agree with you - two very different cars - just pointing out the world doesn't see it our way" peace out
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06-01-2014, 01:25 PM | #64 | |
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BMW made a bigger and more powerful car (F13 vs E63) which is heavier to met the requirement (power and handling). They could build it lighter? Maybe yes by using more CF like the driveshaft, trunklid,...they did for M3/M4 or what they did for i8 and build a CF unibody! I don't know M6 needs or it's practical, but for sure CF increases the price significantly! maybe it's engineering or marketing point... Again, M6 is not a 911's competitor .... peace out
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06-02-2014, 05:36 AM | #65 | |
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I also disagree with your "lowest weight cab" comment. Full aluminum structures like those from Jaguar, Audi and on the Corvette are much lighter, regardless of size. Considering their size, the F13s are not light. BMW could most certainly build a lighter car that would still handle all the power they can throw at it. But it costs either money or content. |
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06-02-2014, 08:33 AM | #66 | |||
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If you read my previous quotes, I said the same things. The thing is I was quoting other members' quote in this thread and you and another one quoted on my comments to "correct" me, missing my points. CF reducing the weight and center of gravity. this is just an example of reducing the weight not the only one. Unibody and removing the frame is another one. all of these help to reduce the weight. He said BMW did not a good job and was referring to the "good job" ... I mentioned the more CF to reduce the weight, increase the cost and exampled the i8 ... the only concern about extra weight is handling IMO and cost. that's why I compared Corvette with 911.... Quote:
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