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      10-01-2013, 09:14 AM   #67
Shaw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjayfan View Post
tldr version: testing publications? lol

Once upon a time 100% of car magazines were based on a Print only business model with very substantial subscription lists and advertising revenues that can only be dreamed of today. The relationships between the auto makers and these magazines were very tight as the auto makers were dependent to them for market reach. Press events and car shows made little impact compared to the penetration of the magazines.

Auto makers actually listened to the larger magazines and sometimes made changes in their lineups based on that feedback, a good review sold cars.

The magazines shared their subscriber demographics with the auto makers who understood that those demographics were only a portion of their customers actually buying cars. But the market reach was still something that the auto makers couldn't achieve for the same price.

Enter the internet. Auto makers could potentially reach everyone (connected that is) for a fraction of the price. The magazines, at least the ones that survived, soon understood that digital ad revenues evolved to be somewhere between 10 to 16 times cheaper than print advertising and the business model changed to page views at any cost. The number of page views is directly tied to advertising inventory, and any type of controversy increases page views which allows them to sell more digital ads.

That anyone still listens to the crap written today from those magazines is surprising, there are any number of new startups that actually give objective information, or at least specifically identify subjective views. Many of the newer information outlets actually acknowledge that the rest of the world (those that don't buy car magazines) exist. The allegory of a king (or ultimate driving machine) worked well without the immediacy and bi-directional nature of the internet; to say the king is dead presupposes that the king actually existed.

There's a good bit of other changes today also, more stringent regulation and a weaker economy to name a few that have significant impact on the industry.

So to the quoted poster, if you had said that you didn't like something and said why, I'd listen. Perhaps not agree, but I'd listen. But comments based on 0-60 times that are so absurd and done in a way to make people run up page views or contrived rating systems that don't make a lot of sense, no. Why do so many people let others speak for them?

Two last comments: First, yes, I am in the publishing business (thankfully not the auto segment), you're looking through rose colored glasses.

Second, why are the majority of negative comments in this forum from 3 series drivers?
Because, maybe some of us "3 Series" drivers have driven/owned 6 series in the past!!! including myself...
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      10-01-2013, 09:20 AM   #68
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Having a look over the results once again, I noticed that BMW is falling short in areas which are kind of irrelevant to this comparison... like trunk space?! or price??!!! Dude, if I wanted more trunk space, I would by an SUV... and price?! Well, there's a reason when you drive a BMW vs. Audi...lol
When it comes to power train and chasis, BMW is leading. Which I believe is the actual parameteres if you are testing hi peformance cars... not luxury!
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      10-01-2013, 09:45 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by ceter View Post
+1,. A big beer for you monsieur for that!

I also dislike Audis interor/exterior design but in such comparo they should compare comfort (as those are limos) but in the first place performance and chasis as the title says - super coupe-sedan comparo...
Polska , hey?!
Beer around Pl. Piłsudskiego or Pl. Teatralny works!!!
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      10-01-2013, 11:03 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaw View Post
Because, maybe some of us "3 Series" drivers have driven/owned 6 series in the past!!! including myself...
I've owned a number of 3 series as well, and never considered a 6 (of any kind) until the F1x models.... ?
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      10-01-2013, 11:26 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjayfan View Post
I've owned a number of 3 series as well, and never considered a 6 (of any kind) until the F1x models.... ?
I had the 2008 6 series while in Europe.
I'm very happy with my new 3 series...it has outperformed and exceeded my expectations...
still far from any competition.
I expect the same from 6 series...not happening nowadays...
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      10-01-2013, 12:46 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaw View Post
I had the 2008 6 series while in Europe.
I'm very happy with my new 3 series...it has outperformed and exceeded my expectations...
still far from any competition.
I expect the same from 6 series...not happening nowadays...
I've not owned an F30 so I won't comment on it, but if I went by many of the mainstream publications I'd have to challenge your comment about competition, but then that's the point I was trying to make.
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      10-01-2013, 02:03 PM   #73
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cheer up guys. All cars have this and that, and if we all had the money and time, wouldn't we love to just build our own car that has everything we could ever wish for.

I still love my m6, and I'm sure the rs7 and the cls63 are great cars too.
But others think differently, that's why we have so many choices of cars to choose from the start, and that's what makes the m6 so different and vice versa.

have a nice day gentlemen.
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      10-12-2013, 02:16 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by NKRZ View Post
What aesthetics? The Audi rear end looks like an elephant sat on its trunk?!? On a serious note, as an M6 driver the worry is BMW has slipped on the dynamics side which is their brands core selling point. They really have to work on the traction off line and weight which effects the handling. I love the car, but can't help feeling they cruised through its R&D.
I agree with some of your points (and trust me, I don't like the Audi looks).
I agree that BMW doesn't seem to be focused on the 'ultimate driving machine' anymore because the market has moved away from that. They are just trying to keep up with the market, and as a result, loosing some pure enthusiasts.

To me, the 2013/4 gens seem like sporty Lexus'. Hell, in some comparisons the GS-F Sport got better ratings for 'driving feel' than the F10 5 series.

However, I do not agree that off the line traction is important for a BMW. Screw 0-60 times, I could care less. These are not 1/4 mile cars. It's good to have a fast 1/4 mile time because it's a measure of the power of the car, but I could care less to launch faster. I care more about how predictable the car is, how it feels, how it behaves in the curves, how quickly I can get on the gas pedal coming out of a corner and how easily I can modulate the throttle, etc.

I'm not buying a BMW to launch it from stop light to stop light. So off the line traction is not nearly as important as the feel of the car, the weight, predictability, etc.
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      10-25-2013, 04:35 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisp View Post
I agree with some of your points (and trust me, I don't like the Audi looks).
I agree that BMW doesn't seem to be focused on the 'ultimate driving machine' anymore because the market has moved away from that. They are just trying to keep up with the market, and as a result, loosing some pure enthusiasts.

To me, the 2013/4 gens seem like sporty Lexus'. Hell, in some comparisons the GS-F Sport got better ratings for 'driving feel' than the F10 5 series.

However, I do not agree that off the line traction is important for a BMW. Screw 0-60 times, I could care less. These are not 1/4 mile cars. It's good to have a fast 1/4 mile time because it's a measure of the power of the car, but I could care less to launch faster. I care more about how predictable the car is, how it feels, how it behaves in the curves, how quickly I can get on the gas pedal coming out of a corner and how easily I can modulate the throttle, etc.

I'm not buying a BMW to launch it from stop light to stop light. So off the line traction is not nearly as important as the feel of the car, the weight, predictability, etc.
Sorry a little late on my reply. I live in hot climate and believe the minute I put my pedal done at any speed up 3rd gear I lose traction or slip depending on what my setting is and this in a straight line or existing a corner. I did not have any of these issues with my E60.

I agree the application of power is more important than the amount and I wish they could deliver higher up in the rev range to make for smoother acceleration.
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      10-27-2013, 05:11 AM   #76
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I know everybody is different, but between the rear of the RS7, and that big, eagle-beak overhang in the front, AND the overall styling no thanks to the Audi. Not to mention the aforementioned electrical issues Audi has.

I'd prefer the M6; but wouldn't kick the CLS63 out of the garage, either...
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      12-04-2014, 08:46 AM   #77
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I test drove the RS7 before I purchased my 15' Gran Coupe. The RS7 was brutally fast but not fun to drive at all. The B&O system in the RS7 is sounds horrible and the user interface seemed like it was made for a 5 year old. Way too many menus to make small adjustments that should be readily accessible. 5 steps to change one tone seeing then you have to backup a menu and go to the next tone setting menu. Not ego at all and no meant for intelligent consumers. Interior was on par but not better than the M6 and I don't need a 5th door to put my nonexistent children's sports equipment in. The engine note of the RS7 reminded me a of a truck. at low RMP WOT it felt like the chassis was twisting slightly. I'm going to test drive one again now that I have 3700 miles on my M6 just to see if i'm just that biased but from my initial impressions of the RS7 I was quite simply bored.

I took my GC european delivery and it fit 1 large suitcase, 2 small suitcases and professional camera gear. We hit Germany, Italy, France, UK, Belgium and the Netherlands. Got the car up to 189 (after break-in/first service) on the autobahn (competition package) took several laps on the Ring. Got perhaps 10 traffic camera tickets and it was a great time in comfort the whole way.

When I see an RS7 they almost look identical to a regular A7 I don't get allure. The one think I did like about the RS7 was the sticking of the seat backs which I could take or leave it.


Last edited by TXAlex; 12-04-2014 at 08:55 AM..
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