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05-21-2013, 09:04 AM | #45 | |
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if this porsche pdk wasnt stock, then i take it all back (and maybe it wasnt i have just the info of the vid from the titel). I am refering to this special race, and if there is 200hp difference the gap must be bigger, 200hp more is huge, and pulls massiv over the 500hp car, special on those high speed runs, when we have to overcome this kind of drag.. rest per pm |
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05-21-2013, 09:17 AM | #46 | |
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i never denied the power of the m6, but i said in my eyes and trugh my experience with high power cars a 700hp m6 version should let the 911 pkd (stock) more in the dust then he did, because 200hp more is massiv.. those 50-150kmh takes in Gustavs vids about 5 secs (depending on cars,) the longer part ist above those speeds maybee up to 270kmh, but for various reason it is more intresting for me to see the performance on hihgspeed. (admitting if you do not have unrestrictet highways or Airfield it is completly non sense) off course the tuned m5/6 is clearly faster than the stock no single question, and agree it is not faire to compaire 2 cars over multiple vids.. Last edited by m-ch; 05-21-2013 at 09:23 AM.. |
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05-22-2013, 01:18 AM | #47 |
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Updated first post with this video of MHR M6 vs Ferrari 430 Scuderia
Compare it with this race between the 430 Scuderia and the M3 ESS VT-625 decat (see the second race - the Ferrari started in 3rd gear in the first race instead of in 2nd): The ESS M3 has 625hp and weighs 250-300kg less than the MHR M6. In my book that means the MHR M6 has to have some decent power to leave the 430 behind... Last edited by Boss330; 05-22-2013 at 01:28 AM.. |
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05-22-2013, 01:45 AM | #48 |
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Awesome vids. The manhart M6 is killing them. Definitely a huge difference for the Ferrari starting in second vs 3rd. Thanks for Posting.
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05-23-2013, 02:09 AM | #49 |
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Updated with Ferrari 458 Italia
The Manhart M6 is really impressive! Ferrari 458 Italia 458 = 570HP on 1430 KG which means 2,5KG per HP M6 = 700HP on 1925KG which means 2.75KG per HP |
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05-23-2013, 02:34 AM | #50 | ||
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05-23-2013, 02:49 AM | #51 | |
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just that above 200kmh, 90-95% of the engine power is used to overcome drag (not mention internal engine friction etc) and somewhere 5-10% is mass (maybe some one can calculate it to get the exact figure of power needed for overcome drag on acceleration between 200-300kmh. It shows more and more power is used vs drag, less and less power remains for mass, therefor our main factor in hihgspeed is drag assuming the acceleration 200-300kmh takes about 17-20 secs for the 700hp coupe, it is ovious that this time is mainly build by the drag resistance, and not by weight or aditional weight Put your v-box in your car and try it out yourself, you couldnt notice the time diff without box for your additional load in your car it would be wrong to compare just the cw figure of the 911 turbo vs the m6, as i think in this figure the drag of downforce isnt included (induced drag), and the turbo wing surly doesnt help on drag reduction.. |
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05-23-2013, 03:19 AM | #52 | |
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But, Newtons laws still apply even at high speeds. It doesn't matter if you are allready accelerating when you reach that "magical" 150km/h... The example above shows that since aero drag "eats up" more and more of the engines available power, there is less and less left to overcome the cars weight. If you have 100hp left to overcome the weight of the car. A difference of 300kg makes a BIG impact. Just try to accelerate with a 100hp car that weighs 1000kg and then load an extra 300kg in the car and you will see that the added weight makes a difference. And, why is it that weight to power ratio actually has relevance in all of the races the MHR M6 has raced against here? Unless you possibly can explain how Newtons laws doesn't apply at speed...??? |
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05-23-2013, 04:22 AM | #53 | |
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since we both agree that we mainly fight against drag on higher runs additional weight is less and less un- important bassed on the overall acceleration time (for example 200-300KmH), or do you disagree on that. on a 200-300kmh run additonal 150kg gives me round about 1 sec more. (fact based) That is really nothing on a total off 15 secs acceleration. (7%) I dont get it, do you want to prof that my data logging wasnt incorrect, have you ever tried it yourself. Well formulas are nice to have, but we have to considerat so mutch factors, that is gonna be endless, unless here are some physicist or specialist on aerodynamic. ( total drag, induced and parasit to overcome between 200-300km vs available engine power, drivertrain lost etc) but i do have my data logs witch i do believe. off cours you can say 1 sec is a lot off distance at 300kmh, but your feeling without test equipement couldnt say the difference. Last edited by m-ch; 05-23-2013 at 04:31 AM.. |
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05-23-2013, 05:47 AM | #54 | |
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I'm not saying your datalogging is incorrect. In fact your datalogging confirms that weight makes a difference. And if 150kg is 1 sec, then 300kg is at least 2 sec. Power to weight do make a difference, regardless of speed. Formulas and laws of nature are not just "nice to have". They actually describe realities of physics. There is no way around that... I have also said earlier that you (or the human body) will not be able to feel the difference between an acceleration of, say 0,85G and 0,9G. Don't confuse what you can feel with what actually happens. And 1 sec at 300km/h is 84 meters, 2 seconds is 167 meters (A football (soccer) field is 105 meters long, a football field (American football) is 109.7 meters, you agree that that is quite a substantial difference) Regardless of what you can feel the difference is substantial if those two cars are racing each other down a runway. No one would be in doubt about who has won the race... Last edited by Boss330; 05-23-2013 at 06:32 AM.. |
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05-23-2013, 09:12 AM | #55 | |
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You are correct if you compare 2 cars starting at the same time at 200kmh then it is visibel. Yes. But in reallity you hardly drive side by side at 200kmh and start your race, isnt it more on our Highways, that we are driving behind each other and hit the trottle to max when traffic permits (german unrestrictet highways). At the end to be relativly safe and to not bring someone else stupidly in danger i can just do the v-box messurement on highspeed runs, and therefor have just the time indication.. Unless you go to Nardo or an other highspeed course, were sutch heads up could be safely done. For my understanding a time increase off 7% for aditional 150kg or 14% for 300kg (if calculation is correct, additonel time increase is equal to the additonal weight incresae, based on my v-box datas 200-300kmh), was or is not a big issue for me, given that the acceleration time is already around 20 secs. |
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05-23-2013, 11:21 AM | #56 |
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Can we put this argument to rest or you guys PM each other??? It's very informative nonetheless but killing this thread. Thanks for all the info.
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My Thread: http://www.6post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=794659 |
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05-23-2013, 01:55 PM | #57 |
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