Bimmer Performance Center OBDII Flashing

[Phil@BPC]

Just wrapping up OBDII flashing this 650i xDrive.

[AZ_Bmw_550]

Just ordered my tune from BPC yesterday. Looking forward to the results...

[Dasein]

What were the results, baseline/final?
And cost?

Thanks!

[Phil@BPC]

This is an xDrive vehicle and unfortunately we do not have the ability yet to dyno xDrive/ AWD vehicles. We are still able to connect to the vehicle and take it on a drive to monitor conditions. From dynoing other N63TU's they baseline around 348whp and after a tune they perform around 475whp.

N63TU tunes can be found on our website.

https://bimmerperformancecenter.com/...=6148617306150

[upstate650]

Originally Posted by Phil@BPC

This is an xDrive vehicle and unfortunately we do not have the ability yet to dyno xDrive/ AWD vehicles. We are still able to connect to the vehicle and take it on a drive to monitor conditions. From dynoing other N63TU's they baseline around 348whp and after a tune they perform around 475whp.

N63TU tunes can be found on our website.

https://bimmerperformancecenter.com/...=6148617306150

Wow! Nice numbers! what does the torque increase look like? What other supporting mods are required, if any?

[Phil@BPC]

Here is a graph of what a RWD N63TU made. AWD will be a little different. I believe this is on a stock motor no modifications.

[AmooManiak]

348 hp base dyno? Either the N63TU that you used or the dyno must be broken. N63s are known to dyno more than that, let alone the TUs.

Here's one for the XI, which probably has even more drivetrain loss than a RWD car.

I think a more accurate baseline figure for the TU would be 400 - 410 whp (and that's being conservative from what I've seen from other tuner's baselines)

[Dasein]

Seems like a canned tune would get one most of the way there, if you cant fine-tune to dyno runs?
Too many variables with street pulls and seat of the pants impressions, I would think.
For road trip considerations anyway.
Nice results on the tear sheets, and nice bundle of extras (coding) you add to the engine parameters.

[upstate650]

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

348 hp base dyno? Either the N63TU that you used or the dyno must be broken. N63s are known to dyno more than that, let alone the TUs.

Here's one for the XI, which probably has even more drivetrain loss than a RWD car.

I think a more accurate baseline figure for the TU would be 400 - 410 whp (and that's being conservative from what I've seen from other tuner's baselines)

Phil@BPC Bob@BPC John@BPC

BPC folks - Is there a response to this post? The baseline numbers you post show a 20%+ drivetrain loss based on the advertised HP and TQ for the N63TU, and that is for a RWD car, since you say you can't dyno an xdrive. This would be at the very, very high end of expected drivetrain loss for a RWD vehicle. It also assumes the motor's published HP and TQ numbers are accurate. Typically, BMW under reports these numbers.

Interested in hearing your side of this, including the gear baseline was recorded in. Was this a single vehicle or an average across multiple vehicles?

Obviously, it is impossible to accurately know the percent of drivetrain loss with knowing the crank figures for the motor. BMW typically under rates their HP and TQ numbers for their motors, but I don't know if this is true of the N63TU?

[Bob@BPC]

Originally Posted by upstate650

Phil@BPC Bob@BPC John@BPC

BPC folks - Is there a response to this post? The baseline numbers you post show a 20%+ drivetrain loss based on the advertised HP and TQ for the N63TU, and that is for a RWD car, since you say you can't dyno an xdrive. This would be at the very, very high end of expected drivetrain loss for a RWD vehicle. It also assumes the motor's published HP and TQ numbers are accurate. Typically, BMW under reports these numbers.

Interested in hearing your side of this, including the gear baseline was recorded in. Was this a single vehicle or an average across multiple vehicles?

Obviously, it is impossible to accurately know the percent of drivetrain loss with knowing the crank figures for the motor. BMW typically under rates their HP and TQ numbers for their motors, but I don't know if this is true of the N63TU?

We do our base line pulls in 5th gear (or whatever the 1:1 or closest to 1:1 gear) and use SAE correction factors (will show lower numbers that most dyno shops that show STD or Uncorrected). 19% - 21% is on the money for drive-train loss on an auto and around 15% - 17% on manual cars. We've dyno'd 1000 or more cars on our 224x and most base model cars (non m cars) usually fall into that percentage group.

NOTE: As the video above shows STD correction factors, Giving the car 7 - 15 more HP than what SAE would show
EDIT: One last Note, they also have the smoothing all the way down and it will show bumps, the peaks on the bumps will also add another 5 - 10hp.

Always look for dyno graph with SAE numbers and smoothing level 5. I've posted to help everyone to see how some places cheat dyno sheets

Below is an s54 I just tuned (cams, rods pistons and stock intake manifold with maf)

SAE with smoothing 5 vs STD with smoothing 0

[upstate650]

Originally Posted by Bob@BPC

We do our base line pulls in 5th gear (or whatever the 1:1 or closest to 1:1 gear) and use SAE correction factors (will show lower numbers that most dyno shops that show STD or Uncorrected). 19% - 21% is on the money for drive-train loss on an auto and around 15% - 17% on manual cars. We've dyno'd 1000 or more cars on our 224x and most base model cars (non m cars) usually fall into that percentage group.

NOTE: As the video above shows STD correction factors, Giving the car 7 - 15 more HP than what SAE would show
EDIT: One last Note, they also have the smoothing all the way down and it will show bumps, the peaks on the bumps will also add another 5 - 10hp.

Always look for dyno graph with SAE numbers and smoothing level 5. I've posted to help everyone to see how some places cheat dyno sheets

Below is an s54 I just tuned (cams, rods pistons and stock intake manifold with maf)

SAE with smoothing 5 vs STD with smoothing 0

thanks for providing this response! It is enlightening!

In doing a little research myself, I came across anecdotal reports suggesting that the baseline figures on a dyno for the N63 and N63TU were very, very similar, despite the TU's significantly higher published HP and TQ figures from BMW, suggesting that much, most or all of the increase was on paper, and that the N63 was severely under rated by BMW.

Any thoughts on this? If it is true, that should temper our expectations for baseline figures for the N63TU?

[upstate650]

Originally Posted by AZ_Bmw_550

Just ordered my tune from BPC yesterday. Looking forward to the results...

please keep us updated on the process!

[AmooManiak]

I'm also interested to know the opinions of the other tuners who have done baseline dynos. Most of them have the N63TU over 400 whp. I would think that most tuners used similar techniques for baseline runs (with biggest factors being mustang vs dynojet.)

[upstate650]

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

I'm also interested to know the opinions of the other tuners who have done baseline dynos. Most of them have the N63TU over 400 whp. I would think that most tuners used similar techniques for baseline runs (with biggest factors being mustang vs dynojet.)

if any of the others ever post dyno sheets, we can compare them. Another thing I noted in the video you posted above, that car was dyno'd in 4th gear - I don't know the gear ratio of 4th on that car - is it 1:1?

[AmooManiak]

Here are a few I was comparing against. They are all closer to 400 rather than 350. Of course the gear also matters, but it's just interesting to see the differences.

http://www.bpmsport.com/services/tun...-software.html
https://missiontuning.com/bmw-f10-20...-software.html
http://www.burgertuning.com/images/d...W_dyno_Jb4.jpg

[upstate650]

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

Here are a few I was comparing against. They are all closer to 400 rather than 350. Of course the gear also matters, but it's just interesting to see the differences.

http://www.bpmsport.com/services/tun...-software.html
https://missiontuning.com/bmw-f10-20...-software.html
http://www.burgertuning.com/images/d...W_dyno_Jb4.jpg

definitely interesting to see the differences. I don't think we will ever have a truly satisfactory answer. Every car is different, and every dyno is different, and the altitude/temperature/humidity all play a role as well.

Now if you want to drive your car to all these different places and have your car dyno'd on each of their machines we will be able to see what is really going on!

[Bob@BPC]

Originally Posted by upstate650

thanks for providing this response! It is enlightening!

In doing a little research myself, I came across anecdotal reports suggesting that the baseline figures on a dyno for the N63 and N63TU were very, very similar, despite the TU's significantly higher published HP and TQ figures from BMW, suggesting that much, most or all of the increase was on paper, and that the N63 was severely under rated by BMW.

Any thoughts on this? If it is true, that should temper our expectations for baseline figures for the N63TU?

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

I'm also interested to know the opinions of the other tuners who have done baseline dynos. Most of them have the N63TU over 400 whp. I would think that most tuners used similar techniques for baseline runs (with biggest factors being mustang vs dynojet.)

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

Here are a few I was comparing against. They are all closer to 400 rather than 350. Of course the gear also matters, but it's just interesting to see the differences.

http://www.bpmsport.com/services/tun...-software.html
https://missiontuning.com/bmw-f10-20...-software.html
http://www.burgertuning.com/images/d...W_dyno_Jb4.jpg

I know ours is known to read lower than most others out there. During our dyno days, we call it "Heart Breaker". Its always hard to compare dyno to dyno because of software (winpep7 vs winpep8) or if its an eddy current or what was used to lube the bearings on the roller, even tire pressure can change the numbers on a car. Its always best to do a before and after pull on the same dyno to see your results. The gains is what its all about vs just looking at peak hp and tq.

I've listed a stock 2011 550i vs 2014 650i below

Blue Line 2011 550i n63non tu dyno'd in 5th gear
Red line 2014 650i n63tu dyno'd in 5th gear

[AmooManiak]

Thanks for that comparison. It makes me a little happier knowing that the TU makes more hp and torque throughout most of the powerband, aside from that little peak from the Non-TU between 5k and 5.3k rpms.

[AZ_Bmw_550]

I have my BPC tune installed now. No before or after dyno numbers to share, not into bench racing. All I can say is before kind of fast, now very fast...

I'm very happy with the results, it was exactly what I was after. Thanks much BPC.

[upstate650]

Originally Posted by AZ_Bmw_550

I have my BPC tune installed now. No before or after dyno numbers to share, not into bench racing. All I can say is before kind of fast, now very fast...

I'm very happy with the results, it was exactly what I was after. Thanks much BPC.

Ridiculously fast? I would expect a SIGNIFICANT change in responsiveness and acceleration. Also, keep an eye on your mileage. It should increase noticeably if you can keep your foot out of it.

[AZ_Bmw_550]

I'm not sure about RIDICULOUSLY fast, but this shows up on the iDrive now.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-HnKPmwQhmA...spaceballs.jpg

[AmooManiak]

Nice. I think it would be very interesting to get a few tuned guys together to do back to back runs on the same day. I'm in the Chicago area.