New Car Quandry

[richard in NC]

The Glacier Silver 650i that I was looking at, was sold out from under me, by another sales person, just ours before my appointment to finalize the deal.

So, I'm back to square one. With no cars I want on the lot, I'm now throwing an M4 back into the mix. Did anyone consider it as well, and why choose the 650i?

The 650i is about $200/mo more to lease.

Also should I grab one on its way, or order? I have 3 months before end of lease. Both are similar to what I'd order. Sahkir Orange M4 vs Space Gray 650i.

[panzer948]

Hmm.... this board isn't as active as the M

[richard in NC]

Plus most here have the GCs or Verts.

[bmrfam]

I just made this same decision so I can tell you my thinking, but cannot yet confirm if I am right for my needs and I was deciding between the verts so there are more differences. I am also doing ED so my pricing will be slightly different than yours. When I spec out each car to be as identical as possible, my monthly spread was less than $100. My US MSRP was $91k on the M4 and $107k on the 650i but the 650i has much more aggressive pricing now and higher incentives as the refresh is coming out in a few months. From what I have seen, that is going to be a VERY minor refresh. It looks like I am also coming from a similar car, 335is vert.

As many have said, the 650i is luxury with sport and the M4 is sport with luxury. If you never track the M4 you will never see its full potential but it will be easier to throw around in curves and such. I have a long commute, so I am trying something with a bit more comfort, but I drive fast so I will be getting a tune and I chose the Active Roll system to ensure the car stays as flat as possible for such a large car. With a tune, the pounds per HP and torque for the 650i actually slightly exceeds the M4. Of course, if you put an equivalent tune on the M4, it will pull ahead at least in HP, not torque. The seats are way better than the M4 and the 650i is a bit softer and has a comfort+ setting that the M4 obviously does not have so crushing will be better. The slightly longer wheelbase also helps with that.

I am not sure about the coupe, but the backseat in the vert is actually larger in the M4. It does not sound logical, but it is. The trunk should be larger in the 650i, but it is even more so when looking at the vert. I like the M4 hardtop, but the trunk becomes a joke empty and with the top stored.

As for the board activity, you have to remember that very few are like us and are choosing between the two. Many, but not all, M4 potential or current customers have stretched the cash as far as they can or want to. You also have many more lurkers from a regular 3 or 4 series group that hang out to watch and comment on the M as they desire to get one or just are interested in the performance side. If you are not interested in or cannot or do not want to afford the 6, you will not lurk or comment as much. There is more exclusivity to the 6 club and I am not just talking about the production numbers. It is a different group of people here and I will let you judge what that culture is compared to the M. I have noticed a distinct difference myself. Not better or worse, just different and I would be happy to be a part of either

I can answer more questions if you have them.

[doug_999]

I always look at these things as signs. I will also say that the "would buy again" percentage of the 6-series BMWs are on the lower side per CR (I believe only 62% of 6-series owners would "buy their car again").

I personally don't think I would buy my GC again. It is HUGE and well, kind of doggy around town (the trans seems to be programmed into lazy mode (in comfort) and you need to always kick it up to sport to get the car moving - which then in turn holds the gears non-stop annoying). This was also noted by my friend when we switched cars (his 550xi for my 650xi GC) and finally MT noticed the same thing. The 6-series is a boulevard cruiser.

The M4 on the other hand (and I've only recently driven an M3 with DCT) is a machine. It is going to be MUCH more responsive and much more fun to drive.

My only comment here is that a M4 loaded up nicely should lease out at the same as the 650 (as noted above, nice discounts on the 6-series). So if I had to do it all over again, even though I really REALLY wanted AWD, I think I would have gone M3 (note it was not out at the time).

Like I said, these things can be a sign

[BMWMilan]

They're different cars.

People who enjoy the M4 will find the 6er too big, soft and floaty.

Conversely, people who enjoy the 6er will find the M4 lacking in comfort and luxury, and a bit too edgy, as well as lacking in the social gravitas department.

Just really depends on what you want out of a cat.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by bmrfam

I just made this same decision so I can tell you my thinking, but cannot yet confirm if I am right for my needs and I was deciding between the verts so there are more differences. I am also doing ED so my pricing will be slightly different than yours. When I spec out each car to be as identical as possible, my monthly spread was less than $100. My US MSRP was $91k on the M4 and $107k on the 650i but the 650i has much more aggressive pricing now and higher incentives as the refresh is coming out in a few months. From what I have seen, that is going to be a VERY minor refresh. It looks like I am also coming from a similar car, 335is vert.

As many have said, the 650i is luxury with sport and the M4 is sport with luxury. If you never track the M4 you will never see its full potential but it will be easier to throw around in curves and such. I have a long commute, so I am trying something with a bit more comfort, but I drive fast so I will be getting a tune and I chose the Active Roll system to ensure the car stays as flat as possible for such a large car. With a tune, the pounds per HP and torque for the 650i actually slightly exceeds the M4. Of course, if you put an equivalent tune on the M4, it will pull ahead at least in HP, not torque. The seats are way better than the M4 and the 650i is a bit softer and has a comfort+ setting that the M4 obviously does not have so crushing will be better. The slightly longer wheelbase also helps with that.

I am not sure about the coupe, but the backseat in the vert is actually larger in the M4. It does not sound logical, but it is. The trunk should be larger in the 650i, but it is even more so when looking at the vert. I like the M4 hardtop, but the trunk becomes a joke empty and with the top stored.

As for the board activity, you have to remember that very few are like us and are choosing between the two. Many, but not all, M4 potential or current customers have stretched the cash as far as they can or want to. You also have many more lurkers from a regular 3 or 4 series group that hang out to watch and comment on the M as they desire to get one or just are interested in the performance side. If you are not interested in or cannot or do not want to afford the 6, you will not lurk or comment as much. There is more exclusivity to the 6 club and I am not just talking about the production numbers. It is a different group of people here and I will let you judge what that culture is compared to the M. I have noticed a distinct difference myself. Not better or worse, just different and I would be happy to be a part of either

I can answer more questions if you have them.

+1

[M6-Coupe]

I believe (as others mentioned) you are comparing two completely different cars for different people/purpose. 650i is a perfect luxury car with sporty character with no doubt, but if you want to push it to the limits, it's kind of lazy (even in sport+ mode) although it is a torque monster ..... I used to have two 650i Coupe (2012 and 2013 model) then switched to M6 and will never go back to the current 6 series again; however If you put M cars out of picture, the 650i is the best BMW currently is produced ..Of course in my opinion
M4 on the other hand is a nimble, fun to drive, fast M car! If I have not had experience with the power of S63TU, I would definitely go for M4! M4 is not as classy/comfort/luxury as 650i but driving the M4 is full of excitement specially when it's MT .... Let say this way... If I still had my 650i, I would trade in immediately to get M4...
BTW, I love that SO M4 you posted... If M4 could keep up with M6, I had definitely pulled the trigger, but fortunately (or unfortunately) my M6 destroys M4 any where any time in straight line
The last sentence was for M3/M4 guys LOL

[doug_999]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

BTW, I love that SO M4 you posted... If M4 could keep up with M6, I had definitely pulled the trigger, but fortunately (or unfortunately) my M6 destroys M4 any where any time in straight line
The last sentence was for M3/M4 guys LOL

Then your M6 must be modified? Because a stock M6 does not destroy a M4 in a straight line (and certainly can't run with it in the curves).

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by doug_999

Then your M6 must be modified? Because a stock M6 does not destroy a M4 in a straight line (and certainly can't run with it in the curves).

No. My M6 is stock and as I said she destroys M4 in straight line anytime from standstill or rolling

[richard in NC]

Thanks all for the replies. If things go as planned Monday, I'll have a surprise choice to show.

[doug_999]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

No. My M6 is stock and as I said she destroys M4 in straight line anytime from standstill or rolling

You must have a very special M6 then. Because even BMW doesn't believe you!

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx

Unless destroying is losing? Maybe I have it all backwards

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by doug_999

You must have a very special M6 then. Because even BMW doesn't believe you!

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx

Unless destroying is losing? Maybe I have it all backwards

My friend don't rely on those numbers. For some reasons they are not real numbers. The real world says something else.
The motor trend (and many others) reported 0-60 in 3.7 second for F10 M5. You can search on you tube to see the videos. The same guy at the same location (Irvine California where they record the world greatest drag race 1,2,3,4) reported 3.9 for M3/M4. M6 is a bit faster than M5 so basically it's 0.2-0.3 second faster than M4! The same thing for 1/4 mile where M6 has at least 5-6 mph higher trap speed. On rolling (as you know) the car with higher Power/Weight ratio is the winner and M6 vs M4 is 0.130 vs 0.118 if we go with BMW numbers. Dinan measured the power of M6 618HP and 576 lb-ft of torque while 484 HP and 446 torque for M4... all of these numbers for a car (M6) which is around 650 lb heavier than M4... all of information/data that I mentioned here can be found over internet and I can link you if you want...

I leave this one here for you "real world"

[Downfourit]

Funny I was looking to maybe trade my 650i for the M4 and the dealers out here in SoCal want around $400 a month more than what I am paying. They are claiming there are no specials, deals, or residual on the M4 as it is a 2015 and we are still in 2014. The M4 is pretty much a 10 second car now with a tune and high oct. fuel. I think the record is at 11.1 at the 1/4 mile so far, an intake, downpipes, a larger intercooler and its in the mid to high 10's!

[doug_999]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

My friend don't rely on those numbers. For some reasons they are not real numbers. The real world says something else.
The motor trend (and many others) reported 0-60 in 3.7 second for F10 M5.

Let me help you - I don't believe that MT or R&T corrects for altitude or temp. C&D does. They have the M4 and M6GC doing the exact same 3.7. Either way, I think you need to go find someone with a M4 and a DCT and just prove to yourself how fast your car is - because you can keep telling yourself how much faster it is, but in the real world, it just isn't - and let's be serious, come that first turn, its kind of all over.

Peace out.

edit: I want to be clear - I'm talking 0-60 and qtr mile here and when "I" refer to "from a roll" I am talking from 5mph. The video you posted shows the cars going from 40+. The M5/M6 cars are incredible at this speed and just pull like crazy (my E60 M5 was a monster there as well - but completely wimpy off the line). So ... The M4 is a faster car from a standstill and/or 5mph. But the additional power of the M5/M6 will take over at high speed. I'm not questioning this.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by doug_999

Let me help you - I don't believe that MT or R&T corrects for altitude or temp. C&D does. They have the M4 and M6GC doing the exact same 3.7. Either way, I think you need to go find someone with a M4 and a DCT and just prove to yourself how fast your car is - because you can keep telling yourself how much faster it is, but in the real world, it just isn't - and let's be serious, come that first turn, its kind of all over.

Peace out.

edit: I want to be clear - I'm talking 0-60 and qtr mile here and when "I" refer to "from a roll" I am talking from 5mph. The video you posted shows the cars going from 40+. The M5/M6 cars are incredible at this speed and just pull like crazy (my E60 M5 was a monster there as well - but completely wimpy off the line). So ... The M4 is a faster car from a standstill and/or 5mph. But the additional power of the M5/M6 will take over at high speed. I'm not questioning this.

Dude, I don't know why you argue to prove you know everything and this is not the first time you treat like this! Look at these videos and say whatever you like to say

6:50 first one (M3) and 2:50 second one (M5)

I'm done with this conversation. You can live in your dream. I don't see any reason to waste my time to prove you anything... Goodluck!

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by doug_999

Let me help you - I don't believe that MT or R&T corrects for altitude or temp. C&D does. They have the M4 and M6GC doing the exact same 3.7. Either way, I think you need to go find someone with a M4 and a DCT and just prove to yourself how fast your car is - because you can keep telling yourself how much faster it is, but in the real world, it just isn't - and let's be serious, come that first turn, its kind of all over.

Peace out.

edit: I want to be clear - I'm talking 0-60 and qtr mile here and when "I" refer to "from a roll" I am talking from 5mph. The video you posted shows the cars going from 40+. The M5/M6 cars are incredible at this speed and just pull like crazy (my E60 M5 was a monster there as well - but completely wimpy off the line). So ... The M4 is a faster car from a standstill and/or 5mph. But the additional power of the M5/M6 will take over at high speed. I'm not questioning this.

And on a side note C&D test result:

M4 vs 911:
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...e-specs-page-4

RS7 vs M6GC vs CLS63 AMG:
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...specs-page-5-2

M6GC vs M4
0-30 : 1.4 vs 1.7
0-60 : 3.5 vs 3.9
0-100 : 7.9 vs 8.6
0-130 : 13.0 vs 14.6
1/4 mile: 11.7 @ 124 vs 12.1 @ 119
Rolling 5-60 : 4.0 vs 4.2


I don't see anywhere M4 can beat M6 based on your C&D referral...
So please stop trolling and cut the sarcasm... I think you are the one who need somebody help you ...

[Downfourit]

I'll make it simple for everyone, BMW will not build a car that would be faster than their flagship M6, it would be like Chevrolet making Camaros that are faster than Corvettes, the higher ranking sports car always comes faster from the factory than the lower models, it just wouldn't make any sense the other way around for the company or the consumer. Why would I drop $125k on a M6 if i could drop $75k on an M3/4 and it would put down better performance stats? Now after modding, it's a whole other story, the M4 is lighter and can run a lot more boost, 28psi I've seen so far and 11.1 quarter mile times. Throw methanol in there and some bolt ons and we will see an M4 beat the M6 in the 1/4. So far the fastest one is at 10.9, very close to the M4 and they are just getting started.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by Downfourit

I'll make it simple for everyone, BMW will not build a car that would be faster than their flagship M6, it would be like Chevrolet making Camaros that are faster than Corvettes, the higher ranking sports car always comes faster from the factory than the lower models, it just wouldn't make any sense the other way around for the company or the consumer. Why would I drop $125k on a M6 if i could drop $75k on an M3/4 and it would put down better performance stats? Now after modding, it's a whole other story, the M4 is lighter and can run a lot more boost, 28psi I've seen so far and 11.1 quarter mile times. Throw methanol in there and some bolt ons and we will see an M4 beat the M6 in the 1/4. So far the fastest one is at 10.9, very close to the M4 and they are just getting started.

[doug_999]

Originally Posted by Downfourit

I'll make it simple for everyone, BMW will not build a car that would be faster than their flagship M6, it would be like Chevrolet making Camaros that are faster than Corvettes, the higher ranking sports car always comes faster from the factory than the lower models, it just wouldn't make any sense the other way around for the company or the consumer. Why would I drop $125k on a M6 if i could drop $75k on an M3/4 and it would put down better performance stats? Now after modding, it's a whole other story, the M4 is lighter and can run a lot more boost, 28psi I've seen so far and 11.1 quarter mile times. Throw methanol in there and some bolt ons and we will see an M4 beat the M6 in the 1/4. So far the fastest one is at 10.9, very close to the M4 and they are just getting started.

Except even BMW says the M4 is faster 0-60...

[Downfourit]

Originally Posted by doug_999

Except even BMW says the M4 is faster 0-60...

Momma was wrong again! Doug, seriously? You are not going to get the same outcome when there are 2 cars made by the same manufacturer for performance and one costs $40-50k less than the other. The universe just hasn't allowed it yet. BMW lists the M4 at 4.1 0-60, The M6 has pulled a 3.5 (Tested by Car & Driver mag against the RS7 & CLS63) in Gran Coupe version after being listed as 3.6 by BMW, the coupe is even quicker, lighter.

[doug_999]

Originally Posted by Downfourit

Momma was wrong again! Doug, seriously? You are not going to get the same outcome when there are 2 cars made by the same manufacturer for performance and one costs $40-50k less than the other. The universe just hasn't allowed it yet. BMW lists the M4 at 4.1 0-60, The M6 has pulled a 3.5 (Tested by Car & Driver mag against the RS7 & CLS63) in Gran Coupe version after being listed as 3.6 by BMW, the coupe is even quicker, lighter.

Who is Momma? Cause it is not BMW marketing - and I seriously doubt that the BMW marketing department says "since it costs more, make sure it is faster" - but then again, who knows since I am neither in marketing nor work for BMW.

However, if you look at the links I posted earlier in the thread, BMW shows the M4 at 3.9 seconds with the DCT and 4.1 with the manual transmission. So those silly folks at BMW either made the biggest marketing blunder in the world, or maybe, just maybe that's what BMW thinks is correct and factual?

Either way, I suspect we have taken this thread far enough off topic and if we wish to continue, one of us should start a new thread titled
Which is faster, the M4 or the M6 and does it matter to anyone other than doug,dfi, or m6c?