M6 Competition Pack

[M6Gone]

Hi - does anyone known if the Competition Pack on a 2015 M6 can be updated to 2016 competition pack spec. (600BHP)? Also, other than BHP is there any other differences between the two?

Thanks

[mastermayhm]

is there any difference between the 14 comp pack and 15 comp pack?


why not just go jb4?

[devondragon]

The bigger question to me is: Since the '14 CP lists at 575 HP, but dyno's more like ~630+ at the crank, is the '16 CP actually 25 HP MORE than the '14, or are they simply listing a higher HP, knowing it outputs more than that anyhow (i.e. shrinking the understatement a bit but not really changing the car's power)?

[mastermayhm]

Originally Posted by devondragon

The bigger question to me is: Since the '14 CP lists at 575 HP, but dyno's more like ~630+ at the crank, is the '16 CP actually 25 HP MORE than the '14, or are they simply listing a higher HP, knowing it outputs more than that anyhow (i.e. shrinking the understatement a bit but not really changing the car's power)?

This. I really like this question. I'd like to know this as well.

[Phatcat]

Originally Posted by devondragon

The bigger question to me is: Since the '14 CP lists at 575 HP, but dyno's more like ~630+ at the crank, is the '16 CP actually 25 HP MORE than the '14, or are they simply listing a higher HP, knowing it outputs more than that anyhow (i.e. shrinking the understatement a bit but not really changing the car's power)?

Personally I think that's it, since according to Sport Auto testings, they all pretty much accelerated the same.

No M5 or M6 has ever gone below 12 sec in Sport Auto's 0-200km test, if I remember correctly, a M5 CP accelerated faster than M5 Jahre (600HP), a M6 non CP had a faster acceleration than M6 (600HP) CP.

Does that meant CP is a waste of money? No, CP comes with suspension tweaks which does help it go around a track slightly faster thank non CP version, despite no obvious acceleration improvements.

Audi RS7 performance model had an obvious improvement in acceleration over the standard model though, performance models have now gone below 12 sec. in 0-200km. Sport Auto had it at 11.5 sec, and Auto Bild had it at 11 sec flat, more than 1 sec improvement over the standard, which is pretty impressive.

[brad850csi]

I think difference with the RS7 is that Audi actually told the truth with 560hp with the original tuning of the car, and now the car with 605hp has possibly that or even a bit more. Also the added power can actually be put to the ground, whereas 0-100kmh in an M5 or M6 is largely traction limited and more power could actually make it trickier to get grip.

I'd like to see 100-200kmh runs of all C63/E63, RS4/6/7, M4/M5/M6 cars myself, but not many people seem to record it

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by mastermayhm

is there any difference between the 14 comp pack and 15 comp pack?


why not just go jb4?

You have good point however there is a difference between factory remap and JB4 remap beside the warranty coverage of factory remap...Also I believe there is revised MDM and Active M Differential software or TCU?? ... maybe some suspension upgrade too??

[washboy]

What does BMW have to gain by downplaying HP? isn't it to there advantage to actually state the correct horsepower if its higher?

[Phatcat]

Originally Posted by brad850csi

I think difference with the RS7 is that Audi actually told the truth with 560hp with the original tuning of the car, and now the car with 605hp has possibly that or even a bit more. Also the added power can actually be put to the ground, whereas 0-100kmh in an M5 or M6 is largely traction limited and more power could actually make it trickier to get grip.

I'd like to see 100-200kmh runs of all C63/E63, RS4/6/7, M4/M5/M6 cars myself, but not many people seem to record it

I think the M5/6 certainly had the better 100-200km compare to the standard RS7, since they both can get to 200km faster than the RS7 despite having a slower 0-100km.

However, the RS7 performance model cut the 0-200km by more than 1 sec., so they might be neck to neck now from 100-200km.

The RS7 performance is still slower than the M5/6 around the track according to tests, so as far as handling is concerned, BMW still has the upper hand.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by brad850csi

I think difference with the RS7 is that Audi actually told the truth with 560hp with the original tuning of the car, and now the car with 605hp has possibly that or even a bit more. Also the added power can actually be put to the ground, whereas 0-100kmh in an M5 or M6 is largely traction limited and more power could actually make it trickier to get grip.

All of these cars are announced underrated and most likely M5, M6, RS7 (and even E63) have a lot more power than what they are being claimed. As far as 0-100 or 0-200 as you correctly mentioned RS7 can beat all M cars due to AWD configuration while all current M cars (you can read torque monsters) have traction issue. 100-200 km/h race is different story since a RWD car has much better performance in this case due to less powertrain loss of RWD vs AWD.

I'd like to see 100-200kmh runs of all C63/E63, RS4/6/7, M4/M5/M6 cars myself, but not many people seem to record it

I can tell you M6 is the winner because as you know the main factor in rolling races is power to weight ratio where M6 has the big advantage over the rest of those cars...

[wujekwaldus]

I don't know why Sport Auto's testes never gave below 12s 0-200 in M6/M5 Competition.
I belive two years ago was R8/GTR/TurboS/M6CP comparison where 0-200 for m6 was 11.3s and 100-300km/h was the best from test. Today the 600hp M6 had as i remember 12.5s 0-200 in some autosport test. WTF?

Mine personal M6CP does repeatable low 7's/high 6's 100-200 and high 10's/low11's 0-200..

According to my knowledge there is no option to "upgrade" 575hp version to 600hp version. But I wonder how much HP will produce 600hp on dyno, because it might be only marketing trick. Mine stock 575hp put 615hp on dyno...

Why not to go with jb4?
1) warranty
2) M5/M6 after ecu upgrade often have a clutch slipping problem.
Last day I called manhart to test his stage 1 BOX and they told me that slipping clutch is known problem even after stage 1, Gpower told the same...

[mastermayhm]

Originally Posted by wujekwaldus

I don't know why Sport Auto's testes never gave below 12s 0-200 in M6/M5 Competition.
I belive two years ago was R8/GTR/TurboS/M6CP comparison where 0-200 for m6 was 11.3s and 100-300km/h was the best from test. Today the 600hp M6 had as i remember 12.5s 0-200 in some autosport test. WTF?

Mine personal M6CP does repeatable low 7's/high 6's 100-200 and high 10's/low11's 0-200..

According to my knowledge there is no option to "upgrade" 575hp version to 600hp version. But I wonder how much HP will produce 600hp on dyno, because it might be only marketing trick. Mine stock 575hp put 615hp on dyno...

Why not to go with jb4?
1) warranty
2) M5/M6 after ecu upgrade often have a clutch slipping problem.
Last day I called manhart to test his stage 1 BOX and they told me that slipping clutch is known problem even after stage 1, Gpower told the same...

OK OK. That's definitely a good enough reason haha. So from the sounds of it. The 14, 15 and 16 all have same hp rating and the CP gets you suspension components and black exhaust tips? I guess I'd assume the lower acceleration times due to stiffness of suspension and lack of traction...

[Phatcat]

Originally Posted by mastermayhm

OK OK. That's definitely a good enough reason haha. So from the sounds of it. The 14, 15 and 16 all have same hp rating and the CP gets you suspension components and black exhaust tips? I guess I'd assume the lower acceleration times due to stiffness of suspension and lack of traction...

I don't know, the faster ones also have better in gear acceleration as well, so I don't think traction is the issue. But they are all close, when I said faster it's like 0.1 or 0.2 sec. differences. However, this also meant like some of us suspected, non CP, CP, 600HP CP, they are all close enough (in terms of HP) that the difference is negligible, hence the variations.

But when it comes to RS7, the performance model had an obvious improvement. There is no doubt the performance model is faster. I would have prefer to see the same in the M5/6 but it is what it is.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by wujekwaldus

I don't know why Sport Auto's testes never gave below 12s 0-200 in M6/M5 Competition.
I belive two years ago was R8/GTR/TurboS/M6CP comparison where 0-200 for m6 was 11.3s and 100-300km/h was the best from test. Today the 600hp M6 had as i remember 12.5s 0-200 in some autosport test. WTF?

Mine personal M6CP does repeatable low 7's/high 6's 100-200 and high 10's/low11's 0-200..

According to my knowledge there is no option to "upgrade" 575hp version to 600hp version. But I wonder how much HP will produce 600hp on dyno, because it might be only marketing trick. Mine stock 575hp put 615hp on dyno...

Why not to go with jb4?
1) warranty
2) M5/M6 after ecu upgrade often have a clutch slipping problem.
Last day I called manhart to test his stage 1 BOX and they told me that slipping clutch is known problem even after stage 1, Gpower told the same...

The result of any performance test is based on many variances including road condition, temperature, weather and also driver. The test you are referring 2 years ago was between GTR (track edition /550 Ps), R8 V10+(550 Ps), 991 TTS (560 Ps) and M6 CP (575 Ps) and as you mentioned the result was fantastic. Not only in 100-300, but even in 50-300 or any other 200-300 and 250-300, M6 CP was the winner and this proves the better M6' power to weight ration (while M6 is over 300 lb heavier than all of those cars) over other competitors although RWD M6 had the worst 0-50 km/h or 0-100 km/h due to traction issue compare to those 3 AWD power monsters.
I believe another reason M6 could beat them is the high amount of torque available in wide range of RPM both low and high end.
http://www.6post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=911274
Must be predicted on the same situation of that test, the new M6 CP (600 Ps / 591 BHP) can be couple tens of second faster in 0-100 km/h or 0-200 km/h and about 0.5 second faster while reaches 300 km/h...
You also correctly referred to clutch issue of those non factory tuning and I have discussed this issue several times with many people here or the M5 side of this forum. FYI, the DCT on our cars is GETRAG 7DCI700 rated to 700 NM (516 lb-ft) as maximum input torque. I admit Germans are always conservative but I highly believe anything more than 600 lb-ft is not safe for this DCT and will put lots of stress on transmission and clutch unless these items are upgraded.
As far as power of M6, there are enough evidence to prove that this engine is generating 600-620 hp for non CP, and 620-640 hp for CP (575 Ps)... the new CP (600 ps) must have something about 650 HP (actual power at crank)

[Phatcat]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

As far as power of M6, there are enough evidence to prove that this engine is generating 600-620 hp for non CP, and 620-640 hp for CP (575 Ps)... the new CP (600 ps) must have something about 650 HP (actual power at crank)

I don't not sure about this, so far the acceleration figures doesn't support it. Sport Auto's tests are fairly consistent with driver. Sure weather/temperature could be different, but if it made such a big difference that a M5 CP is faster than a M5 Jahre, or a M6 CP is faster than a 600HP M6 CP, then to me the HP improvement isn't really much of a improvement.

All the RS7 performance model tested at least 1 sec. to 1.5 sec. faster than the standard model in 0-200km, now that is a real improvement.

We need people with non CP, CP, and 600 HP CP get on the same dyno. My 600HP CP M6 is in the bay area, anyone with non CP or CP want to dyno it can PM me, but I'm only here one more week before I go back to Asia for 10+ months.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by Phatcat

I don't not sure about this, so far the acceleration figures doesn't support it. Sport Auto's tests are fairly consistent with driver. Sure weather/temperature could be different, but if it made such a big difference that a M5 CP is faster than a M5 Jahre, or a M6 CP is faster than a 600HP M6 CP, then to me the HP improvement isn't really much of a improvement.

All the RS7 performance model tested at least 1 sec. to 1.5 sec. faster than the standard model in 0-200km, now that is a real improvement.

We need people with non CP, CP, and 600 HP CP get on the same dyno. My 600HP CP M6 is in the bay area, anyone with non CP or CP want to dyno it can PM me, but I'm only here one more week before I go back to Asia for 10+ months.

Let me discuss a little bit...
IMO, the torque monster RWD M6 is completely different from AWD RS7. I mean it's so easy to repeat the test for RS7 over and over with almost the same result but in case of M6 or any RWD car at this level of power and torque we expect different results due to traction issue (with respect to so aggressive short first gear ratio and FD ratio) again based on temperature, road condition, and weather since putting that much power on the ground is so difficult... not sure if you have ever experienced but if you select the most aggressive setting (S3/sport+) and try to shift next to redline, you will observe the traction control light will blink anytime you shift up even at 100+ mph shifting to the 4th gear... even different tires may change the result. As my personal experience I have had 3 different tires installed on my rear wheels so far. The original MPSS 295/30/25 and then MPSS 305/30/20 and now Nitto NT05 305/30/20 with 30% softer compound and trust me the result are different. With 295 the best 0-60 I got was 3.8 second while with MPSS 305 I could reach 3.7 and with Nitto I got 3.6 second at the same location and almost the same temperature and weather...

As another example, I can direct you to two different links where the same magazine (Car & Driver) reported 0-60 in 3.7 second for M6GC in one test (instrument test):

Zero to 60 mph: 3.7 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 8.0 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 13.0 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 4.0 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 2.1 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 2.8 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 11.9 sec @ 124 mph
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...pe-test-review


And 3.5 second in another test (comparison test):

Zero to 60 MPH: 3.5 sec
Zero to 100 MPH:7.9 sec
Zero to 130 MPH:13.0 sec
Rolling Start, 5–60 MPH:4.0 sec
Top Gear, 30–50 MPH : 2.2 sec
Top Gear, 50–70 MPH : 3.0 sec
Standing ¼-Mile: 11.7 sec @ 124 mph
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...specs-page-5-2

Both cars are non CP and both have almost the same weight but the results are slightly different...

[BMWlab]

Is there any difference in the parts between standard and a CP engine, or is it just a software tune?

[wujekwaldus]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

(...)
http://www.6post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=911274
(...)

The guy who post that topic is the one whom I bought my M6 from - right now he owns M6 CP 600 and I'm waiting for his vbox results (right now there is snow or salt on the roads and there are no conditions to take performance tests...)

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

You also correctly referred to clutch issue of those non factory tuning and I have discussed this issue several times with many people here or the M5 side of this forum. FYI, the DCT on our cars is GETRAG 7DCI700 rated to 700 NM (516 lb-ft) as maximum input torque. I admit Germans are always conservative but I highly believe anything more than 600 lb-ft is not safe for this DCT and will put lots of stress on transmission and clutch unless these items are upgraded.
As far as power of M6, there are enough evidence to prove that this engine is generating 600-620 hp for non CP, and 620-640 hp for CP (575 Ps)... the new CP (600 ps) must have something about 650 HP (actual power at crank)

My M6 is 615hp and 740nm of torque.
And sometimes i can hear clutch slipping mainly on 3rd gear (stock car!)
(you can notice that here

, between 120-130km/h) so I am very afraid to do any ecu upgrade because I would have to install some gearbox - clutches upgrade...
... maybe after warranty

On my channel You can also see the M6 Not CP vs M6 CP (almost the same spec, CCB, individual even both are san marino blue:P) - the result was much much more than expected (15hp difference)

I don't know good reason why stock M6 CP can be so fast after 50km/h. (maybe flat torque curve is good reason as You said?)
I have seen some performance test from Russia where M6 Competition was 7.7s 100-200:

I did better in 36 degrees of Celsius hot road on noon with air condition turned on and passanger inside...

[Phatcat]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

Let me discuss a little bit...
IMO, the torque monster RWD M6 is completely different from AWD RS7. I mean it's so easy to repeat the test for RS7 over and over with almost the same result but in case of M6 or any RWD car at this level of power and torque we expect different results due to traction issue (with respect to so aggressive short first gear ratio and FD ratio) again based on temperature, road condition, and weather since putting that much power on the ground is so difficult... not sure if you have ever experienced but if you select the most aggressive setting (S3/sport+) and try to shift next to redline, you will observe the traction control light will blink anytime you shift up even at 100+ mph shifting to the 4th gear... even different tires may change the result. As my personal experience I have had 3 different tires installed on my rear wheels so far. The original MPSS 295/30/25 and then MPSS 305/30/20 and now Nitto NT05 305/30/20 with 30% softer compound and trust me the result are different. With 295 the best 0-60 I got was 3.8 second while with MPSS 305 I could reach 3.7 and with Nitto I got 3.6 second at the same location and almost the same temperature and weather...

As another example, I can direct you to two different links where the same magazine (Car & Driver) reported 0-60 in 3.7 second for M6GC in one test (instrument test):

Zero to 60 mph: 3.7 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 8.0 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 13.0 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 4.0 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 2.1 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 2.8 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 11.9 sec @ 124 mph
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...pe-test-review


And 3.5 second in another test (comparison test):

Zero to 60 MPH: 3.5 sec
Zero to 100 MPH:7.9 sec
Zero to 130 MPH:13.0 sec
Rolling Start, 5–60 MPH:4.0 sec
Top Gear, 30–50 MPH : 2.2 sec
Top Gear, 50–70 MPH : 3.0 sec
Standing ¼-Mile: 11.7 sec @ 124 mph
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...specs-page-5-2

Both cars are non CP and both have almost the same weight but the results are slightly different...

I know what you are saying, but that's also precisely the problem, too many things that can vary the result. Hence to me, 600HP CP hasn't proved that it is actually better than the standard CP.

And when you factor in that even in standard CP, the HP output can vary more than 10+HP due to manufacturing tolerances, it is possible some standard CP is making same HP as the 600HP CP.

With that said, if there's a choice between the standard CP and the 600HP CP, of course I would still pick the 600HP CP.

As for the RS7 performance model, like I said before, the improvement is real, whether it is due to AWD (easier to put additional power (45HP increase) down) or if it's got 650HP now, I don't know, but it is fast.

I really would like to see a 600HP CP M5/6 do a rolling race against the RS7 performance, maybe throw in the CTS-V too.

[wujekwaldus]

I found this somewhere in the internet:
Its Rs7 with performance package,
vs M6 Gran Coupe Competition
vs Cadillac CTS-V
vs Mercedes-AMG CLS63 S 4matic

RS7 with performance package gives 7.7s 100-200, 14.9s 100-250, this is not event close to M6 Coupe Competition(575), but faster than M6 GC CP600.
Nice results - Better than R8 V10 Plus 1Gen... :O



just to remind:
http://www.6post.com/forums/attachme...7&d=1386134717
I Hope they will compare M6 Coupe CP600 with competitors....

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by wujekwaldus

I found this somewhere in the internet:
Its Rs7 with performance package,
vs M6 Gran Coupe Competition
vs Cadillac CTS-V
vs Mercedes-AMG CLS63 S 4matic

RS7 with performance package gives 7.7s 100-200, 14.9s 100-250, this is not event close to M6 Coupe Competition(575), but faster than M6 GC CP600.
Nice results

Nice...
My 2013 non CP M6 can go 0-100 km/h in 3.8 second... faster than CP 600 LOL

[wujekwaldus]

It might be as I thought - "600" it's a only marketing.
Maybe one day I'll compare CP575 vs CP600 and post the results here.