Are We at War with Islam? - Page 41 - 6Post.com | BMW 6-Series Forum

hks786 · 09-02-2007, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max_!

Wouldn't you freak out if he answered your prayers? If you heard a voice in your head telling you to do something, would you think it was god or would you think you need help?

The Holy Prophet (SAW) taught us to seek guidance in daily prayers and also the optional prayer of Istikhara. This prayer is used for guidance and if we feel an inclination towards something after the prayer, it can be treated as guidance from Allah...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max_!

Also, if your prayers are not heard, does that mean you're not a good muslim? Or that you're not as important to Allah than someone else who's prayers are heard?

Or did you suppose that you would enter the Garden without facing the same as those who came before you?”
Quran (2:214)

You will be tested in your wealth and in yourselves, and you will hear many abusive words from those given the Book before you and from those who associate [others with Me]. But if you are steadfast and guard against evil, that is the most resolute course to take.
Quran (3:186)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max_!

A single omnipotent god cannot give you true free will because all your actions, all your thoughts, all your decisions and their outcome are known even before the universe was created.

There are lots of people that believe in predestination and free-will at the same time. Google it. It's not only muslims that believe it. Look at it this way. Allah is infinite in his knowledge and created us as finite beings. He gave us free-will to make our own choices, but due to his infinite knowledge, he knew what we would do before we done it. How then do we not have free-will?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max_!

Therefore, whatever happened to the forbidden fruit was not temptation but destiny foreseen and approved by god.

Approved by God? when I read that I just remembers the verse from the Holy Quran - "Allah loveth not trangressors". So I dont think you can say he approved of bad things that happened.

Max_! · 09-03-2007, 02:25 PM

> There are lots of people that believe in predestination and free-will at the same time.

I know, and they're wrong.
(And in your heart and mind you also know they are wrong)

> He gave us free-will to make our own choices, but due to his infinite knowledge, he knew what we would do before we done it. How then do we not have free-will?

Because you cannot make a different decision than the one Allah foresaw and thus ordained for you even before the universe was created.

> "Allah loveth not trangressors". So I dont think you can say he approved of bad things that happened.

He must have, for you say he is almighty. If there is a single omnipotent god, things cannot come to pass without his explicit involvement through action or inaction.

If Allah is allmighty and there are no other omnipotent gods, all things past, present and future must happen with Allah's blessing.

No matter what you do, you cannot transgress against Allah's wishes. The most you can do is transgress against the arbitrary rules set forth by scripture/prophets/...

If you want to have free will, you need more or less than 1 omnipotent god, there is no way around that.

Of course, if you were to accept that evil (the devil, satan, whatever) is god's equal in power, then you've got yourself free will.

But then you're not far off converting to my Fanty and Mingo religion.

ATG · 09-05-2007, 04:02 PM

I can't believe you guys are still debating. it's like an argument between a deaf and a blind.

Max_! · 09-06-2007, 02:20 AM

> it's like an argument between a deaf and a blind.

I'd like to see that!

Do they use braille or sign language to communicate?

What would the argument be about? Who's handicap is worse?

> I can't believe you guys are still debating.

That's ok, so long as you don't start believing in one or more gods.

UncleWede · 09-12-2007, 09:56 AM

So, all this hatred of the West only goes back to the end of WWI, because the Otoman empire chose the wrong side of the war? I thought it was a much deeper-seeded animosity.

Yeah, I watched "The Road to 9/11" on PBS last night.

Badmaash · 09-13-2007, 06:09 AM

I didnt see that - I also didnt think it went back to WWI. In the CNN special we saw, there was an egyption named Sayd Qutb who came to the US to study.. but then he went back to Egypt and wrote a book about how the US was morally corrupt. Eventually the Egyptian Govt tortured and killed him. He was Zawaris mentor, and from there Zawari started the anti-west campain in afghanistan after the pull back of the soviets. thats where he met OBL and had influence on him. Ofcourse western governments helped them to gain a following by establishing military bases in other muslim countries and constantly supporting Isreal whom was/has been occupying palestine and also . I think thats the conflict in a nutshell.

UncleWede · 09-13-2007, 10:27 PM

They pointed out in one of OBL's speeches how he complains about the 80 years of torture Muslims have lived under, now the west will feel what it is like. The idea was that most he was addressing knew exactly what he was referring to. SQ was influenced as well by the Otoman overthrow and the colonialization by UK/France. Russia did not occupy any of the previously Muslim lands, and then became the enemy of the Muslims' enemy, and therefore their friends. . . at least until Afghanistan invasion.
Turkey and their leader (can't recall the name) were an attempt to have a Muslim state, but one that "caught up" with the West without being controlled by it.

09-13-2007, 06:09 AM	#886
Badmaash Second Lieutenant Drives: 335i Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: NoVA Posts: 243 iTrader: (0)	I didnt see that - I also didnt think it went back to WWI. In the CNN special we saw, there was an egyption named Sayd Qutb who came to the US to study.. but then he went back to Egypt and wrote a book about how the US was morally corrupt. Eventually the Egyptian Govt tortured and killed him. He was Zawaris mentor, and from there Zawari started the anti-west campain in afghanistan after the pull back of the soviets. thats where he met OBL and had influence on him. Ofcourse western governments helped them to gain a following by establishing military bases in other muslim countries and constantly supporting Isreal whom was/has been occupying palestine and also . I think thats the conflict in a nutshell. __________________ 2007 e92 335i coupe Space Gray \| Black Leather \| Brushed Aluminum Trim \| 6MT \| ZPP \| ZSP \| iDrive \| iPod \| Comfort Access \| Heated Seats 2008 e90 328xi Sedan - Awaiting Transport 2003 Z4 3.0 gray/black - SOLD

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09-03-2007, 02:25 PM	#882
Max_! First Lieutenant Drives: E91 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Europe Posts: 350 iTrader: (0)	> There are lots of people that believe in predestination and free-will at the same time. I know, and they're wrong. (And in your heart and mind you also know they are wrong) > He gave us free-will to make our own choices, but due to his infinite knowledge, he knew what we would do before we done it. How then do we not have free-will? Because you cannot make a different decision than the one Allah foresaw and thus ordained for you even before the universe was created. > "Allah loveth not trangressors". So I dont think you can say he approved of bad things that happened. He must have, for you say he is almighty. If there is a single omnipotent god, things cannot come to pass without his explicit involvement through action or inaction. If Allah is allmighty and there are no other omnipotent gods, all things past, present and future must happen with Allah's blessing. No matter what you do, you cannot transgress against Allah's wishes. The most you can do is transgress against the arbitrary rules set forth by scripture/prophets/... If you want to have free will, you need more or less than 1 omnipotent god, there is no way around that. Of course, if you were to accept that evil (the devil, satan, whatever) is god's equal in power, then you've got yourself free will. But then you're not far off converting to my Fanty and Mingo religion.

09-05-2007, 04:02 PM	#883
ATG Major Drives: f30 328 xdrive, e90 335i gone Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Eastside Posts: 1,057 iTrader: (0) Garage List 2013 BMW 328i xdrive [0.00] 2007 e90 335i [0.00]	I can't believe you guys are still debating. it's like an argument between a deaf and a blind.

09-06-2007, 02:20 AM	#884
Max_! First Lieutenant Drives: E91 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Europe Posts: 350 iTrader: (0)	> it's like an argument between a deaf and a blind. I'd like to see that! Do they use braille or sign language to communicate? What would the argument be about? Who's handicap is worse? > I can't believe you guys are still debating. That's ok, so long as you don't start believing in one or more gods.

09-12-2007, 09:56 AM	#885
UncleWede Long Time Admirer, First Time Owner Drives: E90 325i Arctic Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Oxnard, CA Posts: 2,259 iTrader: (0)	So, all this hatred of the West only goes back to the end of WWI, because the Otoman empire chose the wrong side of the war? I thought it was a much deeper-seeded animosity. Yeah, I watched "The Road to 9/11" on PBS last night.

09-13-2007, 10:27 PM	#887
UncleWede Long Time Admirer, First Time Owner Drives: E90 325i Arctic Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Oxnard, CA Posts: 2,259 iTrader: (0)	They pointed out in one of OBL's speeches how he complains about the 80 years of torture Muslims have lived under, now the west will feel what it is like. The idea was that most he was addressing knew exactly what he was referring to. SQ was influenced as well by the Otoman overthrow and the colonialization by UK/France. Russia did not occupy any of the previously Muslim lands, and then became the enemy of the Muslims' enemy, and therefore their friends. . . at least until Afghanistan invasion. Turkey and their leader (can't recall the name) were an attempt to have a Muslim state, but one that "caught up" with the West without being controlled by it.