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      08-20-2012, 05:41 PM   #23
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You'll be pleased to know that all the UK test have still called the F30 best in class and by far the most dynamic drive on the market.

However, you should also remember that BMW haven't used the slogan "The Ultimate Driving Machine" for some time ...
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      08-20-2012, 05:56 PM   #24
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Having come from an Audi (2008 A4) I feel pretty qualified to give meaningful input on the subject.

Drive an A4 (sport suspension) and a 328 Sportline back to back and its easy to see the difference. S4 vs 335 isn't really a fair comparison.

While there are aspects I miss about my A4, (Quattro, firm 'click' buttons...etc) they are more than offset in the F30.
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      08-20-2012, 05:58 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cardnation View Post
Having come from an Audi (2008 A4) I feel pretty qualified to give meaningful input on the subject.

Drive an A4 (sport suspension) and a 328 Sportline back to back and its easy to see the difference. S4 vs 335 isn't really a fair comparison.

While there are aspects I miss about my A4, (Quattro, firm 'click' buttons...etc) they are more than offset in the F30.
Yea I can see that. I drove an A5 S-line and it's definitely soft. The Audi Sport seats are pretty damn good though.
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      08-20-2012, 06:04 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cardnation View Post
Having come from an Audi (2008 A4) I feel pretty qualified to give meaningful input on the subject.

Drive an A4 (sport suspension) and a 328 Sportline back to back and its easy to see the difference. S4 vs 335 isn't really a fair comparison.

While there are aspects I miss about my A4, (Quattro, firm 'click' buttons...etc) they are more than offset in the F30.
I drove an s4, seemed soft and to much weight over the front wheels. not to mention it's close to 400lbs heavier.

335msport was an easy choice for me.
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      08-20-2012, 06:12 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by ATX78703 View Post
No actually, my logic is spot-on. The reason C/D gives the winning nod to audi's in those 2 comparo's is precisely BECAUSE it is 20K cheaper.... i.e. amazing performance, luxury and style for 20K less. Were, the audi as expensive as the bimmer in the comparo, it wouldn't be so clear cut who the winner is.
Then how do you explain the test numbers
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      08-20-2012, 06:21 PM   #28
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      08-20-2012, 06:21 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
I drove an s4, seemed soft and to much weight over the front wheels. not to mention it's close to 400lbs heavier.

335msport was an easy choice for me.
Agreed, the B7 platform is very nosey, quattro masks this feeling when under power, but its something I would recommend Audi start to work on. Adding an RS4 rear sway helps tremendously in firming up the ass and keeps it from pushing.

Fit and finish isn't even close, granted one is a new generation and the other is coming up on a refresh.

In the end I see it as comparing a Subaru to a Honda, they just don't really compare directly across the spectrum.
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      08-20-2012, 07:08 PM   #30
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It is a shame BMW is deviating from its Ultimate Driving mantra.

Is BMW the new Mercedes?

http://www.egmcartech.com/2012/08/20...utm_source=rss

Last edited by JoeyO; 08-20-2012 at 07:16 PM.
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      08-20-2012, 09:07 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Just a 3 View Post
I don't think a vast majority of us here would take an Audi over a Bimmer anytime soon - however, must say the A7 is tempting.
My wife would leave me if I was seen in an Audi. She's not into someone sliding down the ladder of success.

BJ
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      08-20-2012, 09:12 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darksilkx1 View Post
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test

This is getting really old. The only explanation I can give for BMW's current strategy is that they decided that the market for the Ultimate Driving Machine was shrinking while the market for luxo barges ala Lexus and MB was growing. And so decided to cede that small slice of the pie to Audi.

How else can you explain them gift wrapping their lunch for Audi? This has to be the sixth or seventh recent comparison where an Audi is picked over a BMW by C&D who were historically BMW lovers. I have this bad feeling that the next A4 will thoroughly thrash the F30 in all respects.

Well whatever....
This is a twist. The BMW is the better looker inside and out, and the Audi the better driving performer.
Audi makes great automobiles.
BMW can't and doesn't always win every comparo.

The new A4 should be nice, but I have a feeling it won't trounce the F30 328i. The current S4 out accels the new 335i. The new S4 may trounce it even more. By then though the F30 will likely get an update and the N55 will get a good power pump to better compete.

I am surprised to read that the Audi has better throttle response as I find the 335i's response to be very good. Comparing it to the S4, the 335i doesn't give up response at all, and the V6 SC has very good response as well.

The article says the ZF 8spd was quicker and better programmed in the Audi, which is completely opposite of what I experienced in the A4 2.0 with the same ZF 8spd. I drove the A4 and a few minutes later drove the 328i.
Even though the trans is the same in both cars, the 328i's AT was quicker, and much more responsive. Manual mode was no contest. The A4 in manual mode felt like the old sluggish 6sd AT.

The Audi 3.0 SC is no slouch of an engine at all. It's an excellent engine, well, except for it's love of carbon build up.
I wonder if Audi has addressed that?

The N55 in this GC has a power upgrade and still got beat by a larger margin than the 335i got beat by the S4. And that 335i has the standard power N55. Odd. Maybe something was wrong with that trans, or it just is what it is. It's that old Audi quattro advantage.
20" tires SUCK for performance. I don't know why they bother with all that unsprung weight.
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      08-20-2012, 09:12 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjames View Post
My wife would leave me if I was seen in an Audi. She's not into someone sliding down the ladder of success.

BJ
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      08-20-2012, 09:14 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATX78703 View Post
of course, car and driver keeps comparing audi's that are $20K cheaper than the bmw counterparts... of course, they're going to win the comparos. See the M5/S6 comparo and now this 640GC/A7 comparo....
The BMW got beat on performance, not on price.

Also, the car mags don't pick the cars options. The manufacturers send the car they want to showcase. BMW seems to want to show off all the bells and whistles as they keep sending fully loaded versions.
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      08-20-2012, 09:20 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by 328inGE View Post
I didnt read this as BMW being defeated in performance, but that the $20K extra they are asking for the GC is too much. As nice as it looks, I agree BMW has priced this car over the top.
Huh?

Did we read the same article?
The one where the A4 had better acceleration, shorter braking, better ride and handling, and a better and more communicative steering system?
That's the article I read.

Look at the final results sheet.
Leave out the "vehicle" and "fun to drive" numbers.
The Audi still beat the BMW.
The BMW didn't lose because of it's price, although that price certainly begs the question of why so high.
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      08-20-2012, 09:36 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darksilkx1
Quote:
Originally Posted by E46M54325Ci View Post
I'll admit I've been looking at the 2013 A4. I priced out a premium plus quattro with sport pack and advanced key, white on brown leather for $39,795. a similar 328i xDrive Sport is nearly $6600 more.
Since we are in confession I will also admit that when when my desired 335 MSport config hit 57k, I decided to cross shop an Audi A6 3.0T Premium Plus when placing my order in October.
this

I've been looking at the same car too. Although I've been a loyal 3seri lover for a long time, the F30 is weaker than all. Not to say the issues that I had with alarm signals and wheels. But I'll probably look at the 535 MSport before I make a move. Too hard to leave the bmw world.
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      08-20-2012, 10:33 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM90 View Post
Huh?

Did we read the same article?
The one where the A4 had better acceleration, shorter braking, better ride and handling, and a better and more communicative steering system?
That's the article I read.

Look at the final results sheet.
Leave out the "vehicle" and "fun to drive" numbers.
The Audi still beat the BMW.
The BMW didn't lose because of it's price, although that price certainly begs the question of why so high.
The comparison article at the lead of this thread was about the A7 and 640. Not exactly right on the money for the f30 board.

Then someone posted a review of a luxury line 328 that complained about lack of sportiness. Curious choice of a car to evaluate for sportiness, given that there is a sport line with sportier features.

My mom drives a 2012 A4. It's a nice car, performance isn't anything special though. The current 328i beats it in performance and MPG--though at a higher price. I'm sure Audi will keep improving their line, so things can change in a couple years.
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      08-20-2012, 10:52 PM   #38
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BMW customers are consistently happy with how their cars perform, and are willing to pay the premium for it. It's a package-- the looks, the performance (high 4s for 0-60 times in a car thats sub 55K?), the roundel, familiarity of the interior, and maybe even relationships with a dealer that have been developed over time. I'm glad that Audi stepped up their game in recent years and is giving BMW something to think about. I am an engineer in the auto industry and BMW / Audi are in constant communication with each other and other manufacturers. They are competitors, but they learn from each other. If I was BMW, I wouldn't play the price game with Audi and I don't think they will. BMW needs to come up with better technology, or differentiate itself from Audi with coming up with the same technology but make it more reliable (BMW working with Toyota anyone?) They need to please their core customers by making it possible to get the old BMW feel (steering, throttle, exhaust note, etc) and also make it flexible for the everyday customer (comfort mode, lighter steering, better MPG.) I haven't researched the Audi as much, but at that price point, does it have flexible driver options like this?

I am all for switching over to a better car, but honestly, I just don't like how Audi cars look. This is coming from someone that would have never bought the E9X sedan because of their (arguably) ugly backs-- really it looks like someone had a good design for a bigger car, and then tried to make it into a 3series frame. It's a good argument though when you realize that a decked out F30 335i costs north of 60K-- maybe the S4 should be looked at then, or even the F10, but in all honesty, some people like smaller cars that get better mileage without compromising performance. The F30 really is several cars in one and I think BMW is on the right track. This was more about the 3series than the 6series, and I definitely think that BMW is banking on the looks too much when the performance is so similar to the A7-- they should have priced it more competitively. My 2 and a half cents

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      08-21-2012, 05:19 AM   #39
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everyone wait for the M6 GC, i don't think the RS7 can cope with that
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      08-21-2012, 05:39 AM   #40
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everyone wait for the M6 GC, i don't think the RS7 can cope with that
Car and Driver has already tested the S6 vs the M5 and the Audi had more points. I haven't read that there will be a M version of the Gran Coupe.
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      08-21-2012, 06:19 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crowed View Post
BMW customers are consistently happy with how their cars perform, and are willing to pay the premium for it. It's a package-- the looks, the performance (high 4s for 0-60 times in a car thats sub 55K?), the roundel, familiarity of the interior, and maybe even relationships with a dealer that have been developed over time. I'm glad that Audi stepped up their game in recent years and is giving BMW something to think about. I am an engineer in the auto industry and BMW / Audi are in constant communication with each other and other manufacturers. They are competitors, but they learn from each other. If I was BMW, I wouldn't play the price game with Audi and I don't think they will. BMW needs to come up with better technology, or differentiate itself from Audi with coming up with the same technology but make it more reliable (BMW working with Toyota anyone?) They need to please their core customers by making it possible to get the old BMW feel (steering, throttle, exhaust note, etc) and also make it flexible for the everyday customer (comfort mode, lighter steering, better MPG.) I haven't researched the Audi as much, but at that price point, does it have flexible driver options like this?
Spot on.
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      08-21-2012, 08:16 AM   #42
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All this "I would never" stuff is just plain silly or at least naive. To each his own, be loyal to a brand if you wish... But no two car makers are more similar than Audi and BMW, so if you love either one and can't at least appreciate the qualities of the other, you're either not being honest, you're blindingly loyal (for better t worse), or you're just silly (to put it politely). If you're blindingly loyal and don't shop around, that's you're prerogative. But the second place any BMW owner should look when shopping around for their next car should always be Audi, IMO.

Personally, I don't like driving the same car over and over and could never get 5 straight anything. I've had 3 BMW's and 2 Audi's, with a couple Mercedes and an Infiniti mixed in. I could easily go back and forth between BMW and Audi for the rest of my life and be very happy. They're similar enough to provide a very enjoyable driving experience, and just different enough to keep me from feeling like I'm driving the same car all the time.

Blonde, brunette, blonde, brunette. My wife wouldn't like that so much, but that's no reason my cars can't offer some variety!
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      08-21-2012, 08:28 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crowed
I haven't researched the Audi as much, but at that price point, does it have flexible driver options like this?
Not at the as tested price, but at the 85k they estimated the A7 would run with comparable options, yes. Pretty sure Audi with their Audi drive select was in this game before BMW entered.
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      08-21-2012, 09:49 AM   #44
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I wonder if I will ever reach a point where I will stop laughing everytime I see the a7. That thing is comically hideous.

Either way, no surprise here, c&d always stretches for a reason to pick their precious, boring audi (ESPECIALLY in the a6 v. gs review). Big deal, doesnt help audi sell their ugly creations and theyre still a no-name budget pretend-luxury brand like infiniti.
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