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      02-15-2012, 01:45 PM   #67
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Personally, I'm still a fan of the older gen M6. Aesthetically, the only edge i give to the newer model is the tail lights. One thing that i do not like about the comparison is the use of dull photos and colors to represent the older model vs. bright, vibrant, photos and colors to represent the newer model. It's not an equal comparison, almost like the before and after photos used in diet pill ads.
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      02-15-2012, 02:44 PM   #68
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Also the visual comparison in this Thread is flawed when 3 out of the 5 pictures are smaller in the case of the E60 series.
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      02-15-2012, 03:01 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PawnStar View Post
While wet dream comments on message boards and youtube are fun to read, they do not translate into sales. At the end of the day, the ultimate test will be sales. As a former M6 owner/lessee, currently in the market for a replacement for an SL, my opinion of the new car, after giving it some consideration, is that BMW erred in dropping the NA V10 in favor of the TT V8. Combined with other important factors, it may prove to be tough to sell these in any significant numbers. Will be interesting to see in some years down the road what the total sales numbers will be for the new model cars compared to the E63. Time will tell.

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Time will certainly tell on this, but I cant see this new model surpassing the e63 M6 in terms of total sales. Im sorry but you have to understand how few of these cars have actually been sold. In the 2008 model year which I believe was the highpoint for sales, there was something like 1100 M6 coupes sold world wide! This is a low volume car to begin with, and the S85 made the car desirable. If you dont believe that people bought the car specifically to own a BMW V10, I would think you are mistaken. It is what gave it the special something that the new engine will never be able to recreate. And with a 20%+ increase in price relative to the models, you bring the car into another segment which much more competition.

You see, in the e63, fully loaded and out the door(incl taxes) you were already over $120K, even in the rought times when you could have negotated $10K off, one still payed well over $100K for the loaded car. And in this realm, it was nearly by itself in that you can get an exclusive car with a V10, no one else in the world had a car speced or priced close to it.

Now bring that to $140K-$150K in the new model, even if you get to the point where you can knock off $10K, you're still in the serious money realm where there are a number of other options for near supercars. This M6 will have alot more competition, and I dont see it winning because I do believe there is a glass ceiling when we're speaking about the BMW purchaser. I dont think a person buying $130K+ cars is necssarily a person that looks towards BMW, a company that also sells $30K cars. I think it has alot to do with status in this realm, and in all reality, only a very very few enthusiasts in the world would ever know that my M6 was so expensive, let alone that the new one would cost perhaps 140K+, and I think that many people that buy cars in this realm do it as status and want people to know the car that they are driving is very expensive.

to add to what's already been said, the overwhelming majority of the E63 M6 cars that did get retailed, weren't even sold to the end user. They were sold to BMWFS at, what turned out to be ridiculously inflated residual values and heavily subsidized rates. By the end of 2007, dealers were so desperate to rid themselves of the inventory, BMW had double digit rebates on the car. Of course, at the end of lease, each of those 2007/2008 originations were a huge money loser, by way of having a car come back with stratosperic residual values (72% of 115000 ) while the used car market had other ideas (48k anyone?)

I have no doubt that this movie will play out in style again. After an initial 'hold it steady' puffery, there will be a massive lease subsidy in place to move these. If you keep your powder dry and eyes opened for lease specials, you may just end up with one of these for about 1k/mo, which is where they belong in the first place.
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      02-15-2012, 03:04 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m630 View Post
yes its actually a big scam ofcourse. Real world consumption of the nonM N63 has shown similiar results where they return no better results than the NA V8. And stories from those that own the x m trucks tell of horror consumption, so there is no reason to believe that the ttv8 will result in any better consumption when driven the same way that you would with the mighty S85.

This decision was about politics and marketing, and BMW has now gotten to charge a premium for an engine that is shared between so many car lines, they get scale and we get shafted of what once made ///M what it really was all about, motorsport and NA power...but the story is over, atleast in this chapter of the book, the greenies won out and now ALL BMWs are turbo based, who could have imagined it
I completely agree.

Yes, on the specification sheet you will read how much more fuel efficient the new S63 engine is and their estimated 30% fuel saving over the S85 but in the real world driving tests I would be very surprised if this were completely true.

I for one will never buy a turbo M car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by m630 View Post
Time will certainly tell on this, but I cant see this new model surpassing the e63 M6 in terms of total sales. Im sorry but you have to understand how few of these cars have actually been sold. In the 2008 model year which I believe was the highpoint for sales, there was something like 1100 M6 coupes sold world wide! This is a low volume car to begin with, and the S85 made the car desirable. If you dont believe that people bought the car specifically to own a BMW V10, I would think you are mistaken. It is what gave it the special something that the new engine will never be able to recreate. And with a 20%+ increase in price relative to the models, you bring the car into another segment which much more competition.
Yes, I too believe that the S85 engine was really the standout defining feature of the E60 series. That engine MADE the car for so many buyers. Now with the new 1M, X5M/X6M, M5/M6 I don't feel the desire to upgrade and even more so I feel put off the whole BMW range if I had to choose something new today that I would be looking elsewhere if not for the current M3. When that model is replaced it will be a disappointing day for many BMW M enthusiasts.
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      02-15-2012, 06:01 PM   #71
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Normal aspirated high-revving engines demand more cutting-edge skills, synergy effects, and ultra expensive casting materials than force-induction engines. The result pays off as well especially in the thrilling sound and throttle response delivery. However that doesn't mean the Turbo-charged engines of BMW M like the S63TU aren't a master-piece.
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      02-16-2012, 12:01 PM   #72
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The S85 to NA is what the S63tu is to forced induction. They are both masterpieces and cater to their respective owners/future owners. If you don't already have the e63/64, purchase one off lease or CPO, and then order the new one as well. Saying it has a V10 is like saying look at that rack. And if the new F12/13 does't sell well, maybe we will see a new NA beast down the road. I do like the the sakhir paint and m-dct for this one.
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      02-16-2012, 08:16 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ANILE8 View Post
Also the visual comparison in this Thread is flawed when 3 out of the 5 pictures are smaller in the case of the E60 series.
So why don't you post up some new pictures to make the E6x bigger?
It still won't change the fact that the E6x is not as appealing as the new F12 to some people

Some people also seem to think that forced induction "loses" it's edge in the ///M brand but those people forget (or may not even know) that forced induction isn't something new. Cars have used forced induction since the early 1900's..
Cars have evolved since their creation. If you (or manufacturers) can't evolve or change with the times, then, you get left behind
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      02-20-2012, 12:54 AM   #74
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Who says the lighter weight can only be felt at track. It can be felt in daily spirited driving. Drive an M3 and then an M6. One can clearly feel the weight difference in agility due to the lack of heft.

More power or traction is not the substitute for weight in my opinion. I think BMW M6 needs to cut down on weight. It is getting two heavy.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrari4evr1 View Post
Unless you plan on tracking the car, why does this matter? Some people have mentioned that it is heavier but MOST of these people have probably never done a track day... And some of those will probably never see one with this car (even if they do get one)..
It also has more hp than the previous Gen. M6 so, it's carrying the added weight with the added hp...
Also, with the tuning that was done on the M5 recently, 620hp isn't too far off, at minimal $$$
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      02-20-2012, 01:16 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayani_1 View Post
Who says the lighter weight can only be felt at track. It can be felt in daily spirited driving. Drive an M3 and then an M6. One can clearly feel the weight difference in agility due to the lack of heft.

More power or traction is not the substitute for weight in my opinion. I think BMW M6 needs to cut down on weight. It is getting two heavy.
Yes, I always did wonder if the awesome BMW M6 was one or two heavy.

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      02-20-2012, 03:28 AM   #76
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4000 pounds may be heavy but the M6 is still much lighter than most of it's class competitors, (the exception being the XKRS) BMW made a smartly strategic move moving the 6 series up in class...
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      02-22-2012, 09:04 PM   #77
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Four this I''ll have to agree it is two heavy

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Originally Posted by ANILE8 View Post
Yes, I always did wonder if the awesome BMW M6 was one or two heavy.

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      03-17-2012, 07:07 AM   #78
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f12 looks great still love the e63 tho thinking about getting one
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